Reta for Diabetes

[CrimsonTaco47]

Hey all,

My mom has been on name brand tirz for about 2 years now. She is diabetic and lived with it uncontrolled for about 10 years. I want to say her A1c was like 16 or something even with 2 diabetes medications. She finally started taking care of herself and got on mounjaro. It brought her A1c down to 5.5 which is amazing, but it's creeping up. She is on 15mg now and it's really not keeping her blood sugar within normal range as well as it was even though she eats a low carb/mostly keto diet. I think a lot of people are trying out reta for weight loss (I am too) but are there any people here who are type 2 diabetics who have had success with reta to manage blood sugar?

 

[zpped]

There isn't any finished studies this yet. But in general, yes reta is good at lowering A1c. We just don't know if it's better than Tirz for that yet. (My suspicion is that it is.)

I wore a CGM for a while and was unable to spike my blood sugar out of range while on reta.

 

[Wellwell]

There isn't any finished studies this yet. But in general, yes reta is good at lowering A1c. We just don't know if it's better than Tirz for that yet. (My suspicion is that it is.)

I wore a CGM for a while and was unable to spike my blood sugar out of range while on reta.

That's interesting. What dose where you at if you don't mind me asking.

 

[zpped]

That's interesting. What dose where you at if you don't mind me asking.

I've been on 8mg every 6 days since the beginning of March. I think at that time I was around 6mg on the same schedule.

 

[Calm Logic]

Related research:

[archived internal link]

Scholarly Articles on Reta

Jan 9, 2025

Below are some hyperlinked articles without pay walls on retatrutide. The article by Jastreboff, et al., describes a 48-week, phase 2 trial of reta.

Abdul-Rahman, et al., The power of three - Retatrutide's role in modern obesity and di, https://doi.org/10.1016/j.ejphar.2024.177095.

Alfaris, et al . (2024) GLP-1 single, dual, and triple receptor agonists for treating type 2 diabetes and obesity - a narrative review. EClinicalMedicine, 75, 102782.

Ansari, et al. (2024). Targeting the incretin system in obesity and type 2 diabetes mellitus. Nature...

keangkong

Replies: 10

Forum: Retatrutide

It brought her A1c down to 5.5 which is amazing, but it's creeping up.

Can you give an example or quantification of the "creeping up"? Is there any corresponding weight gain? Or is it safe to assume your mother is at or near her goal weight?

 

[hexagonal]

There isn't any finished studies this yet. But in general, yes reta is good at lowering A1c. We just don't know if it's better than Tirz for that yet. (My suspicion is that it is.)

I wore a CGM for a while and was unable to spike my blood sugar out of range while on reta.

My n=1 sample size is that a1c was lower on tirz than reta, despite having lost more weight, added significant lbm, and further cleaned up my diet.

But I also added 4iu of HGH in there, so confounding factors in both directions.

The trials can't be compared like-for-like, but reta in trials has gotten 31% of participants to an A1c of less than 5.7, but tirzepatide in trials got 51% of participants to that level.

 

[Calm Logic]

Another option is to stack the tirz with survo.

Of course, metformin and/or other oral medications may help, as an add-on to tirz:

https://www.mdpi.com/1422-0067/26/1/421

The combination treatments demonstrated superior restoration of glucose-stimulated insulin secretion (GSIS) functionality compared to 1 mM metformin, 10 nM semaglutide, and 10 nM tirzepatide.

What Are My Options for Type 2 Diabetes Medications? | ADA

Learn about the different classes of non-insulin type 2 diabetes medications used to lower blood glucose levels. Explore options like Metformin, DPP-4 inhibitors, GLP-1, and more.

diabetes.org

Because the drugs listed above act in different ways to lower blood glucose levels, they may be used together to help meet your individualized diabetes goals. For example, metformin and a DPP-4 inhibitor may be used together shortly after being diagnosed with type 2 diabetes to help keep blood glucose levels at goal.

That said, many combinations can be used. Work with your health care provider to find the combination of medicines that work best for you and your lifestyle and help you meet your health goals.

Jardiance is available for pennies on the dollar from Indian pharmacies.

I do wonder how many oral meds some endocrinologists will stack together for type 2.

 

[zpped]

My n=1 sample size is that a1c was lower on tirz than reta, despite having lost more weight, added significant lbm, and further cleaned up my diet.

But I also added 4iu of HGH in there, so confounding factors in both directions.

The trials can't be compared like-for-like, but reta in trials has gotten 31% of participants to an A1c of less than 5.7, but tirzepatide in trials got 51% of participants to that level.

Why would you admit that you can't compare the trials and then try to compare them? Also HGH has a known effect on glucose levels.

 

[hexagonal]

Why would you admit that you can't compare the trials and then try to compare them? Also HGH has a known effect on glucose levels.

I said they can't be compared like-for-like, but it is still a data point. People in here bring up the weight loss differences between the trials all the time.

And yes, that is why I mentioned a confounding factor. Losing weight, adding muscle mass, and cleaning up diets also have significant impact on blood glucose levels - generally more than 4IU of HGH would.

Expecting any individual data point to be free of confounding factors is silly, but in aggregate it might help people come to a rough understanding.

 

[CrimsonTaco47]

Related research:

Scholarly Articles on Reta

Jan 9, 2025

Below are some hyperlinked articles without pay walls on retatrutide. The article by Jastreboff, et al., describes a 48-week, phase 2 trial of reta.

Abdul-Rahman, et al., The power of three - Retatrutide's role in modern obesity and di , https://doi.org/10.1016/j.ejphar.2024.177095 .

Alfaris, et al . (2024) GLP-1 single, dual, and triple receptor agonists for treating type 2 diabetes and obesity - a narrative review. EClinicalMedicine, 75, 102782 .

Ansari, et al. (2024). Targeting the incretin system in obesity and type 2 diabetes mellitus. Nature...

keangkong

Replies: 10

Forum: Retatrutide

Can you give an example or quantification of the "creeping up"? Is there any corresponding weight gain? Or is it safe to assume your mother is at or near her goal weight?

For sure. when things were going super well for her..her fasting was around 80. Her 2 hour post meal would be under 120 always. She rarely had spikes and she was losing weight slowly but consistently. For the last 6 months she said her fasting is around 100 and her 2 hour post meal is like 150. She has completely stalled on weight loss and has gained like 5-8 lbs that she fluctuates with. She is still eating a very low carb diet. Her a1c is back up in the 6's but I cant remember what exactly and shes having a lot of random times when her numbers are high even though its been hours since she ate or something. She is still taking her metformin as well and now she's on 15mg of tirz as of like 2 weeks ago.

I think on of her biggest problems is that she had hardly no muscle before all this, but now i think she's lost most of the muscles she did have. She doesn't eat enough protein and can't build muscle even if she tried, which she doesnt. She's so resistant to try any exercise because she is weak and tired, and I know the tirz makes people tired so I get that, but she's unwilling to try. I definitely have more energy on reta so I wondered if that may help her as well.

I will say, she recently added in Ovasitol after about a year of me begging her to try it out..and it works like magic to bring down any spikes.

 

[zpped]

For sure. when things were going super well for her..her fasting was around 80. Her 2 hour post meal would be under 120 always. She rarely had spikes and she was losing weight slowly but consistently. For the last 6 months she said her fasting is around 100 and her 2 hour post meal is like 150. She has completely stalled on weight loss and has gained like 5-8 lbs that she fluctuates with. She is still eating a very low carb diet. Her a1c is back up in the 6's but I cant remember what exactly and shes having a lot of random times when her numbers are high even though its been hours since she ate or something. She is still taking her metformin as well and now she's on 15mg of tirz as of like 2 weeks ago.

I think on of her biggest problems is that she had hardly no muscle before all this, but now i think she's lost most of the muscles she did have. She doesn't eat enough protein and can't build muscle even if she tried, which she doesnt. She's so resistant to try any exercise because she is weak and tired, and I know the tirz makes people tired so I get that, but she's unwilling to try. I definitely have more energy on reta so I wondered if that may help her as well.

I will say, she recently added in Ovasitol after about a year of me begging her to try it out..and it works like magic to bring down any spikes.

My theory on why people get low energy on tirz is they aren't eating enough. But if she's not eating protein and not eating carbs then what is her diet? How many calories per day is she eating? And definitely need to build some muscle.

 

[GLP1Pharmacist]

Please make sure she sees an actual provider to safe...

 

[pavlovs]

For sure. when things were going super well for her..her fasting was around 80. Her 2 hour post meal would be under 120 always. She rarely had spikes and she was losing weight slowly but consistently. For the last 6 months she said her fasting is around 100 and her 2 hour post meal is like 150. She has completely stalled on weight loss and has gained like 5-8 lbs that she fluctuates with. She is still eating a very low carb diet. Her a1c is back up in the 6's but I cant remember what exactly and shes having a lot of random times when her numbers are high even though its been hours since she ate or something. She is still taking her metformin as well and now she's on 15mg of tirzy as of like 2 weeks ago.

I think on of her biggest problems is that she had hardly no muscle before all this, but now i think she's lost most of the muscles she did have. She doesn't eat enough protein and can't build muscle even if she tried, which she doesnt. She's so resistant to try any exercise because she is weak and tired, and I know the tirzy makes people tired so I get that, but she's unwilling to try. I definitely have more energy on reta so I wondered if that may help her as well.

I will say, she recently added in Ovasitol after about a year of me begging her to try it out..and it works like magic to bring down any spikes.

Her post prandial is still well within range. Non diabetics can have a higher post-prandial than 150. The med is still working for her, I'm not sure switching would be any better, especially since her A1C was so high prior to taking Mounjaro. She was in stroke/amputations/death kind of range. Since it is still being managed so beautifully by her doctor, I think I'd let it keep doing its magic. It's only crept up a little bit. You may be on to something about the muscle loss though. I didn't start really exercising until I had lost 40 lbs, I'd lost a lot of muscle. Within a week of starting to exercise, my glucose numbers had dropped from 180 post prandial to 150 post prandial. I'm wondering if encouraging her to exercise and do a bit of strengthening exercises my be more helpful to her than switching to reta and trying to manage it without a doctor.

 

[zanny-kanny]

My 83 yo mother-in-law (who also has diabetes) lost a good deal of muscle mass after her heart operation. She went from ambulatory to non-ambulatory. For some reason the hospital didn't make sure she got adequate protein to maintain her muscle. Once we realized this we insisted they start feeding her high protein shakes daily. She quickly recovered from her weakened state but it took months to be able to walk with just a cane. She ended up spending 4 months in facilities because of this.

She is getting stronger by taking at least one high protein(low carb) shake a day and eating 60-70 grams of carbs the rest of the day (you can easily do this with high protein/low carb foods/snacks like cottage cheese, yogurt, tuna, hamburger, chicken, etc). She also exercises with one of those steppers that you can use while sitting down and by walking around the inside of her house daily. You might try encouraging her to try these methods to regain her muscle mass. It is working in my mother in law's case.

 

[Labcat]

For sure. when things were going super well for her..her fasting was around 80. Her 2 hour post meal would be under 120 always. She rarely had spikes and she was losing weight slowly but consistently. For the last 6 months she said her fasting is around 100 and her 2 hour post meal is like 150. She has completely stalled on weight loss and has gained like 5-8 lbs that she fluctuates with. She is still eating a very low carb diet. Her a1c is back up in the 6's but I cant remember what exactly and shes having a lot of random times when her numbers are high even though its been hours since she ate or something. She is still taking her metformin as well and now she's on 15mg of tirz as of like 2 weeks ago.

I think on of her biggest problems is that she had hardly no muscle before all this, but now i think she's lost most of the muscles she did have. She doesn't eat enough protein and can't build muscle even if she tried, which she doesnt. She's so resistant to try any exercise because she is weak and tired, and I know the tirz makes people tired so I get that, but she's unwilling to try. I definitely have more energy on reta so I wondered if that may help her as well.

I will say, she recently added in Ovasitol after about a year of me begging her to try it out..and it works like magic to bring down any spikes.

I’m only a few months into tirz and have been prediabetic (but I think I could actually meet criteria for diabetes if I were off my 2 oral meds.). I noticed in switching from EL to compound (ProRx) I started spiking frequently and randomly throughout the day and night (cgm). I took instead my last vial of EL and the random spiking stopped (tho fasting and postprandial is still higher than it has been). Is your mom still using actual Mounjaro?

In studies it is noted that a significant fraction around a half of name brand glp users (presumably covered by insurance) come off after a year, and I wonder if that’s because some people start to losse the effect. It can be seen that initial blood sugar suppression is much stronger than later on, but I haven’t seen any paper willing to conclude that glp is not as good for long term use (tolerance develops?). (Studies are funded by someone, and as we learned during covid even the threat of loss of future funding can keep people quiet about real facts that are politically inconvenient when a person with influence quietly threatens… so there may always be some things unspoken imo.))

 

[HereKittyKitty]

There isn't any finished studies this yet. But in general, yes reta is good at lowering A1c. We just don't know if it's better than Tirz for that yet. (My suspicion is that it is.)

I wore a CGM for a while and was unable to spike my blood sugar out of range while on reta.

Do you have T2? Not to pry into your medical history. Rather, wondering if your pancreas is well-functioning.

 

[zpped]

Do you have T2? Not to pry into your medical history. Rather, wondering if your pancreas is well-functioning.

I was prediabetic T2 range before I lost weight. But my A1c was within range by the time I started reta.

 

[HereKittyKitty]

Thank you for answering my question. I just had labs yesterday. All my results are back EXCEPT A1c.

I am very curious to know how it is faring on grey. The suspense is killing me.

 

[HereKittyKitty]

5.2 babeeeeeeee!!!

 

[oldrunnerguy]

5.2 babeeeeeeee!!!

Hell yeah!!! If you're OK with answering, what was your last A1C, and how long were you on reta before getting this most recent A1C?