Tesamorelin and other GH Secretagogue dosing protocol

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My admitted very limited understanding of these is that the CJC's and Tesa's are signaling molecules that aid the Pituitary to secrete more GH, so they do not necessarily need to be cycled. The Ipamorelin is different in that it works through the Ghrelin receptor, and so it will end up down regulating this receptor and should be cycled.

Beyond that, there is a reason we call it research. YMWV...
 
randombetrayal said:
My admitted very limited understanding of these is that the CJC's and Tesa's are signaling molecules that aid the Pituitary to secrete more GH, so they do not necessarily need to be cycled. The Ipamorelin is different in that it works through the Ghrelin receptor, and so it will end up down regulating this receptor and should be cycled.
Sermorerlin is milder and would be less risky for the long-term, at least if one naturally has high-normal IGF-1 for one's age. But cost-wise, less bang for the buck with serm.

In any case, injections of anything for a long time do increase my concerns about sterility, endotoxins, unknown excipients, etc. My GLPs are tested for most of that now with the group buying/testing, but that is not the case with my non-GLP peptides.

Incidentally, women, especially younger women, don't respond as much to GH peptides:

Gemini said:
Demographic Degree of Physical Response Primary Reason Older Men Very High Low baseline + high liver sensitivity. Older Women Moderate/High Lower estrogen levels allow better IGF-1 conversion. Younger Men Moderate High baseline, but very high liver sensitivity to GH. Younger Women Low High baseline + estrogen-induced GH resistance.
 
I wonder what is considered “Older Men”
 
Twowheelr2 said:
My IGF-1 lab result was it went from 102 (pre Tesa/ipa)to 96 after 5 weeks of daily doses of 2mg TESA/510mcg IPA. I guess that’s good.
Is there a typo here. It looks like your IGF-1 ended up being lower? What about your Z-Score?
 
lessthanhalf said:
All of the human clinical trials of tesamorelin were done in people with HIV lipodystrophy, and if I am remembering correctly all at 2mg/day. To the best of my knowledge, no studies have ever been done in humans in any other state, so none in any kind of general population. None for obesity either.

So it can be said that it has been shown to reduce visceral fat in persons with HIV lipodystropy, and there did not seem to be any concerning effects on cardiovascular risk markers in that group, apart from blood sugar. This does not mean it is tested or known to be safe in the general population, but has much better evidence than anything else that messes with the GH system. And it can obviously cause GH related side effects like increased sugars and insulin resistance, fluid retention and carpal tunnel syndrome. And may or may not increase cancer risks, and reduce lifespan.

Any claims beyond this by pretty much anyone are bro science, not science. There is no scientific basis for days on /off treatment, but there is no scientific base for its use outside of HIV lipodystropy. As far as I am concerned anyone using the term protocol is making stuff up, I have yet to ever see one that is actually consistent with human trial evidence.

Given there is some evidence at least of being tested in humans, and most people taking it are going to be on GLP's reducing the negative effects on blood sugars, it is probably the safest option, ( if you have to use something that messes with HGH ) but getting sugars, lipids, blood pressure and IGF-1 tested is still a good idea. Just because the studies only used 2mg , does not mean 1mg is a problem. But it is quite a lot more expensive than HGH.
I'm debating a protocol, what it one cycles between hgh, tesa and ipa? Like 2 out of hgh in the morning and 1mg and 200mcg of ipa in the night. Will it be confusing the system too much or that way the body can be at its natural state.
 
Twowheelr2 said:
No typo. The z score is -0.1. 102 to 96 is a minor difference according to AI medical experts. 🤣
Was your Tesa tested? I’m no expert but I don’t think I’ve ever seen someone run 2mg of Tesa and IPA daily to have their IGF-1 drop 6 points.
 
I had bloodwork before I started any peptides and now at 8 weeks in. I am taking :

Reta 1.5mg - week

Tesa 1mg / IPA .3mg - Day

MOTS-C 1.5mg - Day

KLOW - 2.67mg Total - Day

NAD+ - 25mg -Day

My Bloodwork:

IGF-1 Before 138, Now 215

Insulin Before 3.6, Now 8.9

I know they are still within normal range. But what do these numbers really tell me?
 
DustAndDignity said:
Was your Tesa tested? I’m no expert but I don’t think I’ve ever seen someone run 2mg of Tesa and IPA daily to have their IGF-1 drop 6 points.
Yes it was tested for Mass and purity. 11.9 mass and>99 purity. I reconstituted with 2 ml BAC for the 2mg dose at 34 units. BTW, I’m 75 and GH are not as active as a 30 year old.
 
Commander said:
I had bloodwork before I started any peptides and now at 8 weeks in. I am taking :

Reta 1.5mg - week

Tesa 1mg / IPA .3mg - Day

MOTS-C 1.5mg - Day

KLOW - 2.67mg Total - Day

NAD+ - 25mg -Day

My Bloodwork:

IGF-1 Before 138, Now 215

Insulin Before 3.6, Now 8.9

I know they are still within normal range. But what do these numbers really tell me?
138 is pretty good for a 75yo! About where I am at 30 years younger. What were the z-scores? I'm guessing 215 is >2?
 
Twowheelr2 said:
My IGF-1 lab result was it went from 102 (pre Tesa/ipa)to 96 after 5 weeks of daily doses of 2mg TESA/510mcg IPA. I guess that’s good.

My IGF1 went from 140 to 100 in about a month, after losing weight and sleeping not so well. So there might be other factors too.

If everything else is the same, I'd be disappointed.

Have you considered HGH?
 
ltjltj said:
138 is pretty good for a 75yo! About where I am at 30 years younger. What were the z-scores? I'm guessing 215 is >2?
54, not 75 🤣
 
Commander said:
I had bloodwork before I started any peptides and now at 8 weeks in. I am taking :

Reta 1.5mg - week

Tesa 1mg / IPA .3mg - Day

MOTS-C 1.5mg - Day

KLOW - 2.67mg Total - Day

NAD+ - 25mg -Day

My Bloodwork:

IGF-1 Before 138, Now 215

Insulin Before 3.6, Now 8.9

I know they are still within normal range. But what do these numbers really tell me?
Interesting your insulin increased that much while on reta? I would think any increase due to tesamorelin would be counteracted by reta, so I asked chtgpt and it said early on reta could increase insulin levels , but after weight loss and long term use it will reduce insulin resistance and insulin levels would reduce to below starting levels. So not surprising given you have been on it a short time.

As I have no idea of the normal range for igf-1 in a 70 yo, I asked chatgpt that as well , so 215 is around or just over the normal range for age depending on the exact test used, I would guess people taking gh or secretagogues are usually aiming for towards the top of the normal range for igf-1 , which is where you are.
 
lessthanhalf said:
Interesting your insulin increased that much while on reta? I would think any increase due to tesamorelin would be counteracted by reta, so I asked chtgpt and it said early on reta could increase insulin levels , but after weight loss and long term use it will reduce insulin resistance and insulin levels would reduce to below starting levels. So not surprising given you have been on it a short time.

As I have no idea of the normal range for igf-1 in a 70 yo, I asked chatgpt that as well , so 215 is around or just over the normal range for age depending on the exact test used, I would guess people taking gh or secretagogues are usually aiming for towards the top of the normal range for igf-1 , which is where you are.
I am 54, not 70
 
Sorry saw someone else made that mistake too. Top of the normal range is 250 at 40 yo and 200 at 70 so still in the ballpark of high normal for igf-1.
 
lessthanhalf said:
Sorry saw someone else made that mistake too. Top of the normal range is 250 at 40 yo and 200 at 70 so still in the ballpark of high normal for igf-1.
Ya on my labcorps test it said top was 255.

I know I am within range, but didn’t know if being high in the range was better than being lower in the range.
 
Commander said:
Ya on my labcorps test it said top was 255.

I know I am within range, but didn’t know if being high in the range was better than being lower in the range.
High in the range, “better,” depends on how you define that word…. I always like to be high in the range of many things.
 
Gt3294a said:
High in the range, “better,” depends on how you define that word…. I always like to be high in the range of many things.
I guess it is better because it means the Tesamorelin is working.
 
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