Swap Reta for Tirz for Inflammation / Mast Cells

[CuttingEdgeScience]

I'm going to be switching from Reta to Tirz, as I keep seeing testimonials from others that tout superiority for inflammation. As someone with POTS, MCAS/MC, et al. I have been floored at how I've been able to eat practically all the foods I lost in the past, but suspect I may see more profound changes to the root of inflammation on Tirz.

Can anyone comment on if dosages differ between the two? I had settled out on 1.5 mg Reta after I was getting side effects when I titrated higher. I have had greatly reduced food noise from Reta, but not significant change in weight (I am just above the "normal" range, but used to be lower before I fell ill.)

Any thoughts, commentary is appreciated!

 

[CheesyPotato]

Tirz definitely reduced inflammation to almost non-existent, was on it 2+ years, but then stopped responding to it. Started Reta 6 weeks ago, finally getting some appetite suppression but does nothing for inflammation.. yet anyway.

 

[FartfulCodger]

One thought--and I don't want to rain on your parade--but the effect on inflammation reduction might be something you have to wait on. I say this because of my results on some blood labs I just had done.

In the past six months I dropped from 230 lbs. to 170 lbs. using Tirz. My May 4 blood labs came out well, except in one area: inflammation. The tests showed that my level of inflammation was a bit high, like someone who had an active infection.

I ran the data through a few AI engines and they all came to the same conclusion: rapid weight loss led to inflammation--this is expected--and hopefully the markers would clear up once I was stable at my goal weight. I'll test again in a few months.

So if you're still actively losing weight at a decent clip, you might find that inflammation is going to be around for a while.

 

[CuttingEdgeScience]

Tirz definitely reduced inflammation to almost non-existent, was on it 2+ years, but then stopped responding to it. Started Reta 6 weeks ago, finally getting some appetite suppression but does nothing for inflammation.. yet anyway.

Thanks for the insight - though, that sucks that it stopped working! I saw appetite changes even on the very smallest microdoses of Reta.

 

[drswole]

I'm going to be switching from Reta to Tirz, as I keep seeing testimonials from others that tout superiority for inflammation. As someone with POTS, MCAS/MC, et al. I have been floored at how I've been able to eat practically all the foods I lost in the past, but suspect I may see more profound changes to the root of inflammation on Tirz.

Can anyone comment on if dosages differ between the two? I had settled out on 1.5 mg Reta after I was getting side effects when I titrated higher. I have had greatly reduced food noise from Reta, but not significant change in weight (I am just above the "normal" range, but used to be lower before I fell ill.)

Any thoughts, commentary is appreciated!

i dare say people are saying tirz is "better" for inflammation due to the fact more people actively use Tirz (it can be prescribed etc) over reta. Its situational more than actively better, potentially.

it could also be that Glucagon activation of Reta interferes slightly?

but in reality all of the GLP-1's that have GIP receptor inflammation reduce systemic inflammation.

I found my sweet spot was titraiting up slowly to 4mg a week, after about a month at this dosage i was able to eat well but still gain benefits i needeed (lipids)

addition of TA1 or TB500 might help with inflammation?

 

[Researcher6076]

Several thoughts. You can stack a little Reta on top of your Tirz. Or, you can stack Cagrilintide on top of Tirz. Or switch to Reta and see if adding KPV will help with inflamation.

 

[CuttingEdgeScience]

One thought--and I don't want to rain on your parade--but the effect on inflammation reduction might be something you have to wait on. I say this because of my results on some blood labs I just had done.

In the past six months I dropped from 230 lbs. to 170 lbs. using Tirz. My May 4 blood labs came out well, except in one area: inflammation. The tests showed that my level of inflammation was a bit high, like someone who had an active infection.

I ran the data through a few AI engines and they all came to the same conclusion: rapid weight loss led to inflammation--this is expected--and hopefully the markers would clear up once I was stable at my goal weight. I'll test again in a few months.

So if you're still actively losing weight at a decent clip, you might find that inflammation is going to be around for a while.

Thanks for the insight - the odd thing is I have lost almost no weight and definitely have some fat to lose. I started Reta last fall, so it has been a while too. I would expect weight loss to cause some transient changes to labs and inflammation.

Granted I only started in the overweight category and slowly titrated from 0.25 mg to a peak of 2 mg. I had some anhedonia and dysesthesia at that level so I tapered down. With my cascade of inflammatory symptoms I never know how I'll react compared to others.

I figure if others with mast cell diseases are saying Tirz is superior for us, it is at least worth a try. Some people have seen their Tryptase levels fall, which mine has been chronically elevated for many years now, even during Reta use.

 

[Hotlongs]

I'm going to be switching from Reta to Tirz, as I keep seeing testimonials from others that tout superiority for inflammation. As someone with POTS, MCAS/MC, et al. I have been floored at how I've been able to eat practically all the foods I lost in the past, but suspect I may see more profound changes to the root of inflammation on Tirz.

Can anyone comment on if dosages differ between the two? I had settled out on 1.5 mg Reta after I was getting side effects when I titrated higher. I have had greatly reduced food noise from Reta, but not significant change in weight (I am just above the "normal" range, but used to be lower before I fell ill.)

Any thoughts, commentary is appreciated!

I will say as someone with POTS and also likely MCAS, switching from Tirz to Reta allowed me to actually feel hunger again. Even at 0.250mg or 250 mcg, I had food noise snuffed out on Tirz.

 

[CuttingEdgeScience]

i dare say people are saying tirz is "better" for inflammation due to the fact more people actively use Tirz (it can be prescribed etc) over reta. Its situational more than actively better, potentially.

it could also be that Glucagon activation of Reta interferes slightly?

but in reality all of the GLP-1's that have GIP receptor inflammation reduce systemic inflammation.

I found my sweet spot was titraiting up slowly to 4mg a week, after about a month at this dosage i was able to eat well but still gain benefits i needeed (lipids)

addition of TA1 or TB500 might help with inflammation?

I certainly could see that there are a lot more Tirz users - in this case I've seen a few testimonials from mast cell patients who switched from Reta. I do think that the Glucagon activation's impact on heart rate is a negative for most of us that already have Dysautonomia or POTS of some type. I also have ADHD, so the anhedonia side-effect may be another part of the balancing act.

I was already having side effects at 2 mg Reta to where I tapered back, and I escalated rather slowly over time. The oddity is I had definitely impacts on appetite even from low doses, but suspected maybe inflammation was holding the weight from dropping. I wanted to see if I could reach 2.5 mg, but it wasn't to be. I dropped for a few weeks to 1.5 mg, and then to 1 mg. I felt better as I went along, both mood and other sensory issues seemed to fade out.

So, yesterday I had my first dose of Tirz at 1 mg. I definitely felt something different, and so far I am going to say that I can understand what people were talking about. My respiratory function seems a bit less labored. My pain level is better, despite not getting to sleep until 4 AM, and I had two new lots of IVIg today for my infusion and I had almost no side effects, which is rather unusual.

My food noise is about the same, but it has been only a day, and I probably am still spinning down from the 1.5 mg doses of the past. Food tolerance is still fine, and if anything GI system is more quiet. Time will tell how this experiment goes - I wanted to see the difference before I suggested one way or another to other friends in the chronic illness group.

 

[bbbilly]

i lost my name brand tirz (zepbound) for about 6 months and realized i never threw my back out while i was on it for nearly a year. when i was off of it for about 6 months i kept throwing it out every 2 weeks or so and had to resort to my other prescriptions sitting around. muscle relaxers, anti inflammatory etc and just thought it was from a change in lifestyle untill i started looking into the grey. got back on it about 3 months ago and havent had a single episode since. knock on wood so ill say im on this for life for no other reason other than the anti inflammatory benefits. and have started new lifestyle changes to aid in that goal, aswell as starting to try other peps to just make the most out of it

 

[SoCalGirl]

One thought--and I don't want to rain on your parade--but the effect on inflammation reduction might be something you have to wait on. I say this because of my results on some blood labs I just had done.

In the past six months I dropped from 230 lbs. to 170 lbs. using Tirz. My May 4 blood labs came out well, except in one area: inflammation. The tests showed that my level of inflammation was a bit high, like someone who had an active infection.

I ran the data through a few AI engines and they all came to the same conclusion: rapid weight loss led to inflammation--this is expected--and hopefully the markers would clear up once I was stable at my goal weight. I'll test again in a few months.

So if you're still actively losing weight at a decent clip, you might find that inflammation is going to be around for a while.

How did you go from 230 to 170 in six months - that is AWESOME. What was your dosage? Did you lift weights? Three meals a day? Any details you want to share?

 

[CuttingEdgeScience]

I will say as someone with POTS and also likely MCAS, switching from Tirz to Reta allowed me to actually feel hunger again. Even at 0.250mg or 250 mcg, I had food noise snuffed out on Tirz.

Aha - another of the chronic illness clan. Saw your signature - I have the opposite CYP2D6 issues - non-processor at one allele and very low activity at the other, almost everything touched by it is poison for me.

That's so curious how differently everyone responds to these medications. From my first doses of Reta, I had major food noise suppression (also 0.25 mg).

I have yet to see a journal study on the microbiome impacts of Reta - but the ones for Tirz makes sense as to why it would be anti-inflammatory. Increase of anti-inflammatory Butyrate production, proliferation of Akkermansia, which restores the gut barrier. Lowering of pathogenic species, and modulation of immune signaling pathways, including reducing activation of mTOR and NF-kB.

And stabilizing mast cells via their GLP-1 receptors, and potentially causing cytoreduction of excess mast cells via autophagy.

Tirz and Microbiome 1

Tirz and Microbiome 2

 

[FartfulCodger]

How did you go from 230 to 170 in six months - that is AWESOME. What was your dosage? Did you lift weights? Three meals a day? Any details you want to share?

I really exploited the appetite suppression. I basically ate nothing all day, which was painless. At dinner I'd have a pretty small portion. I made sure to walk 10k steps every day. I know that I didn't get enough protein though. Probably not the right way to do things, but I was impatient. Also, I was using compounded Tirz (more expensive than grey) and I didn't want to have to buy another three-month plan!

 

[Chopper]

Strictly anecdotal but I started out on Tirz, switched to Reta, got up to 6mg then went back to Tirz as all the pain and inflammation came back on Reta. Now I use mostly Tirz with 1-3mg of Reta a few days out some weeks, other weeks it's 2mg additional Tirz instead. KPV is a must for me if running Reta without Tirz!

 

[GrandmaJ]

If you are prone to side effects, just start slowly on the tirz. I had all the side effects on 2.5mg and when I moved up to 4 after a month, it was really bad. I went back down a little to 3.5 for a while until they stopped. I didn't get to my current dose of 5mg until almost 3 months in and my side effects are finally gone.

As far as inflammation, tirz has been a miracle for me and I will never be without it. 14 years worth at 5mg in my freezer! I can't say how the food noise is compared to reta but I have to remind myself to eat and it has been that way since about 2 hours after my first dose.

Good luck to you!

 

[Aterna13]

One thought--and I don't want to rain on your parade--but the effect on inflammation reduction might be something you have to wait on. I say this because of my results on some blood labs I just had done.

In the past six months I dropped from 230 lbs. to 170 lbs. using Tirz. My May 4 blood labs came out well, except in one area: inflammation. The tests showed that my level of inflammation was a bit high, like someone who had an active infection.

I ran the data through a few AI engines and they all came to the same conclusion: rapid weight loss led to inflammation--this is expected--and hopefully the markers would clear up once I was stable at my goal weight. I'll test again in a few months.

So if you're still actively losing weight at a decent clip, you might find that inflammation is going to be around for a while.

Could this have anything to do with your peptide? I did research on mysterious inflammation resulting from endotoxins.

 

[FartfulCodger]

Could this have anything to do with your peptide? I did research on mysterious inflammation resulting from endotoxins.

I suppose it's possible. All the AI engines seemed to think it was "normal" to have that level of inflammation based on rapid weight loss alone, but that certainly doesn't rule out your theory. Toxins could have exacerbated the inflammation. Unfortunately I've been taking a bunch of other peptides, so I wouldn't be able to narrow down which one might be causing it. It will be interesting to see what my next blood test says, a couple months from now.

Thanks for suggesting this theory. I'm going to research what other markers in my blood would have been affected by endotoxins. My liver markers came out just peachy, FWIW.

 

[TeresaHip]

I have lupus and chronic pain issues. I kept hearing how good reta was so a few weeks ago I significantly lowered my tirz and added reta. Worst mistake I ever made! All my pain and inflammation came back with a vengeance and sent me into a lupus flare. I went off and upped my dosage of tirz again. I now use a little cag as needed.

 

[birdwhacker]

Not sure how your MCAS presents, mine is mostly itchiness if not managed with antihistamines.

Don't get your heart set on tirz or reta making everything better. They'll help you lose weight, which will make everything better, and maybe they lower some inflammatory biomarkers and potentially treat arthritis.

But for what you're after it sounds like you'd be better off adding BPC (specific applications for MCAS) and KPV.

 

[spanky2026]

I was on a prescription anti-inflammatory for years, after a couple months on Tirz I came off it entirely with doctors approval, the Tirz is such a magnificent anti inflammatory for me, the old rx was just unnecessary