My Reta 3 month Journey ( with Dexa scan results)

[woundcarping]

It depends on your curiosity… a baseline then checking along the way is what I’m doing. My next should be sometime in April.

 

[lusty]

I like this approach. Is there guidance on when to get a DEXA scan? I have never done one. I have been on low dose (1mg/wk)of Reta for 4 weeks. Noticed appetite and alcohol suppression. I was actaully really surprised about the alcohol suppression. I will make a drink and it will take me a long time to finish it and I really don't want another after. So my drinking has definitely been subdued.

No real guidance on that, just get them when you want to, most likely at the start of your journey and mid way through but just expect that you will get water loss, so it is just a single data point to be used with other data like how strong you are. Also it is worth noting where the lean muscle mass was mostly lost, sometimes if it appears more in the stomach area then you know it is more water, food waste and glycogen from the liver.

The other point to note as well is your hydration level and that when you lose fat the fat cells are bound by a glycerol molecule, which is a three-carbon molecule (a sugar alcohol). That can show as lean mass on a dexa, so if you lose a lot of weight, you will lose some lean mass from glycerol holding your fat cells together. It is very minimal but if you lose like 30% of your fat mass then it can add up.

 

[dirtyharry]

You took way too much reta too fast, didn't eat anything, lost 40lbs in 2 months and expected to keep your muscle?

Is 1mg to 2mg of Reta considered too much at the start? I figured that was a relatively small/ normal starting dose.

 

[dirtyharry]

How in the heck are you able to get in 200gm of protein on reta? Jeeze

Not the original poster but figured I would chime in. I've been taking a lower dose of Reta (1mg-1.5mg) and found I've been easily able to hit my macros (1500 Calories & 150grams of protein). I also only just started so who knows haha.

 

[zpped]

Is 1mg to 2mg of Reta considered too much at the start? I figured that was a relatively small/ normal starting dose.

No, that's fine. But increasing the dose every couple weeks while loosing substantial amount of weight is too much too fast.

 

[ChicagoFit]

when calculating the "correct" protein per day while on reta, how is it measured?

1) Is protein per day measured based on the ideal body weight or the current body weight?

2) How many grams per pound?

3) Are there variances based on age and/or type of exercise?

 

[yrrdead]

when calculating the "correct" protein per day while on reta, how is it measured?

1) Is protein per day measured based on the ideal body weight or the current body weight?

2) How many grams per pound?

3) Are there variances based on age and/or type of exercise?

Use goal weight and 1gm/lb.

Some people will say more some less, its a range and a goal. The more serious you are about hypertrophy and training the more serious you need to take your protein intake as well as overall nutrition.

Personally , I have a scoop with my coffee and then eat whatever I eat. I will generally have another scoop for "dessert".

 

[woundcarping]

Do some research, there’s plenty of variance in the gram/lb range based on goals, per pound of lean or total weight, bro science, etc.

I’m more interested in maintaining mass vs trying to meaningfully put it on while in a decent sized and duration cut.

I started TRT, lifting, and take 3g HMB/daily to help protect lean mass. I’ll be getting another DEXA sometime this month or early next to compare to my baseline from the end of January (nearly 50 days from the starting date, scheduling sucked at the DEXA place).

 

[lessthanhalf]

Losing 38 lbs in 10 weeks is rapid weight loss, in that sort of catabolic state you are going to lose muscle, your body is going to break down anything it can get to survive. I agree that up to 10 lbs of that will be water, so more realistically it is 20 of fat and 10 of muscle and other tissues/organs lost. You have to be in a serious calorie deficit to lose weight that fast, which does not fit perfectly with you saying you did not get much appetite suppression which is why you increased doses more quickly.

Essentially no science exists for the problem you have, the drugs were designed and studied as treatments for obesity and body fat 27% is definitely not obese, maybe overweight. I am probably still higher than that after losing 79kilos.

I am guessing you probably have pretty high energy expenditure to explain the calorie deficit, without major reduction in food intake. The only sensible answer is to drop down in dose , maybe increase calorie intake to reduce rate of weight loss to get into a mildly catabolic state, rather than a drastic one, and aim to lose fat slowly maybe 1 - 2 lbs per week rather than nearly 4. And high protein intake , at least 1.5g/kg/day. Some muscle loss is nearly inevitable with weight loss, but I have seen the odd exception. Meso probably has a lot more info on cutting cycles, but not a huge fan of their megadoses of anabolic steroids and hgh.

 

[ChicagoFit]

@yrrdead what are your thoughts on protein variance based on the focus of muscle fiber type? As a weightlifter/bodybuilder you clearly "need more" for fast-twitch, but what about slow-twitch endurance focused people? Will the demand for protein be different based on slow-twitch vs fast-twitch catabolism?

Also 1gm per ideal weight seems to be a common standard when not on Reta. Does Reta change the demand for protein in order to spare muscle?

 

[TacoLifter420]

It's possible to mitigate the muscle loss while cutting. I went from 270 to 200 in about 9 months last year. I at a protein forward diet, but only 1300-1400 calories a day. Protein was only around 150 grams a day. I weighed and tracked my food religiously. I trained with weights 3-4 days a week and did 30 minutes of zone 2 cardio 5 days a week. In the last 3 months or so I would do a refeed every 3 or 4 weeks where I would bring my calories to maintenance for a day. I surely lost little muscle, but not much. I was using tirz at a max dose of 5mg a week and 200mg a week of testosterone. I then stabilized my weight for a few months and now i'm on a slow recomp, not bad for a regular 50 year old dude.

The tirz/TRT combo was key to this.

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[yrrdead]

@yrrdead what are your thoughts on protein variance based on the focus of muscle fiber type? As a weightlifter/bodybuilder you clearly "need more" for fast-twitch, but what about slow-twitch endurance focused people? Will the demand for protein be different based on slow-twitch vs fast-twitch catabolism?

Also 1gm per ideal weight seems to be a common standard when not on Reta. Does Reta change the demand for protein in order to spare muscle?

First this is more a question for someone much smarter about nutrition/excercise science than me.

That being said I don't think much about variance based on muscle fibers. The last thing (again huge grain of salt) that I had read about the subject was "we don't really know wtf is going on". By that I mean you have a bunch of each type in a crazy mishmash that change type based on what you are doing and when you stop doing that they go back. That isn't anything I would want to base any type of protein variance on . Additionally unless you are doing constant muscle biopsies you would have no clue what your current ratios are if that makes sense.

I don't know of any mechanism that Reta would induce for changing protein demand.

Like most diet based things you need to modulate your intake based on your physiology and environment. But remember KISS. Start at some arbitrary baseline (1gm/lb lean mass) then go up or down based on data. Some type of body mass scale even a cheapie hopefully can give you some data to base your decision.

Finally , remember unless you are an elite athlete pushing the boundaries, it really doesn't matter that much. Make an effort to hit your protein goals. If you get there great, if not , no biggie. If you are on a deficit and aren't taking any of the more extreme exogenous substances you are going to lose some muscle. I would bet if you somehow had perfect knowledge and execution with your protein strategy vs regular joe taking 1gm/lb there would be a minimal difference in catabolism.