Max does YOU tried?

[5byfive]

And I think the very consistent repetition of the low and slow mantra does tend to make it stick in peoples heads, so even if people have 50 or 100 kilos to lose, they often seem to want to try sticking to unrealistically low doses, and then get confused as to why it is not really working.

The other thing that is repeated is just follow the trial dosing schedule which doesn't necessarily make sense. They are not using that schedule becuse its optimal, they have no idea what optimal is. They have to guess and use it on a one size fits all basis. We are at the beginning stages of figuring out optimal doses.

I think with any drug, lowest effective does is always the best strategy. There is a saying 'if it doesn't have side effects its probably not doing anything'. There is always a downside. It may be higher risk of a rare issue, it may be more cardiovascular stress, or it may be a ton of other things. The key word is effective. If its doing what you need to do, don't increase just to increase. If you are seeing a decrease in effectiveness, thats the time to increase. Its also not a race. Faster isn't necessarily better, its just faster.

 

[woundcarping]

…Faster isn't necessarily better, its just faster.

Slower isn’t necessarily better, it’s just slower.

Efficacy in the moment ≠ long term efficacy, and efficacy as a metric is loosely defined at best.

In the trials, all doses plateau with similar timing. That implies at some level, time is a factor. To my knowledge, it hasn’t been studied if increasing the actual plateaued dose achieves meaningful results, especially compared to trialed schedules.

“There is always a downside” applies to going slow as well. Being an obese person has well studied, common and dire downsides. Plateaus happen over time. Remind me, what are the common dire downsides to GLP drugs?

From a big’n perspective:

“It’s not a race” but there’s no point in crawling on your knees when you have access to bikes, cars, and public transportation.

Life happens, I’d rather take advantage of opportunity and resiliency while I have it vs assuming things will stay favorable. Dropping 80-100lb in 8-10 months at 1% w/w beats the brakes off it taking 16-22 months at .5% w/w. That plateau timeline certainly becomes a factor at 69-95 weeks.

 

[Bioexplorer]

I'm still at 2mg but the person that convinced me to try Reta has been on 15mg /week for well over 3 months and still losing. The real selling point for me was his latest blood test results. First test results in decades where everything was normal. He had stalled on tirz.

 

[5byfive]

Slower isn’t necessarily better, it’s just slower.

Efficacy in the moment ≠ long term efficacy, and efficacy as a metric is loosely defined at best.

In the trials, all doses plateau with similar timing. That implies at some level, time is a factor. To my knowledge, it hasn’t been studied if increasing the actual plateaued dose achieves meaningful results, especially compared to trialed schedules.

“There is always a downside” applies to going slow as well. Being an obese person has well studied, common and dire downsides. Plateaus happen over time. Remind me, what are the common dire downsides to GLP drugs?

From a big’n perspective:

“It’s not a race” but there’s no point in crawling on your knees when you have access to bikes, cars, and public transportation.

Life happens, I’d rather take advantage of opportunity and resiliency while I have it vs assuming things will stay favorable. Dropping 80-100lb in 8-10 months at 1% w/w beats the brakes off it taking 16-22 months at .5% w/w. That plateau timeline certainly becomes a factor at 69-95 weeks.

Except the difference is could be losing 10% of that weight from muscle vs losing 40% of that weight from muscle. Faster is almost always going to be worse for muscle retention. So you have lost a lot more weight but still have substantially more fat and less muscle than if you had gone slow. High rates of muscle loss during rapid weight loss are well documented. You can do things to offset muscle loss doing either slow or fast, but apples to apples, you are going to lose more going fast.

Also, I also don't see the reasoning for the idea that you would plateau if you still had room to titrate up. The idea of a weightloss window is based on trial dosing schedules.

 

[dondada109]

Cllinical trial has tested up to 12mg, and the benefits plateaus between 8 - 12 mg.

has anyone here tested more than 12 mg?

I just did 2mg and want to ramp it up these days, but 8mg upwards is crazy for me currently, maybe not soon

 

[j_nebulism]

Started at 0.5mg and gone up to 2mg where I’ve been for about 6 weeks. Don’t feel the need/desire to go any higher. I’m seeing the results I want and hope that continues!

 

[BNLFL]

Started at 0.5mg and gone up to 2mg where I’ve been for about 6 weeks. Don’t feel the need/desire to go any higher. I’m seeing the results I want and hope that continues!

How much are you losing a week?

 

[j_nebulism]

How much are you losing a week?

About 0.6kg a week

 

[BNLFL]

About 0.6kg a week

1.3lbs. I still don't get these low doses.

 

[j_nebulism]

1.3lbs. I still don't get these low doses.

I don’t have much to lose at all. Just stubborn weight that I couldn’t shift. I think it’s a steady/healthy rate for me.

 

[lastresort]

I don’t have much to lose at all. Just stubborn weight that I couldn’t shift. I think it’s a steady/healthy rate for me.

Like that stubborn pinch of waist or belly fat?

 

[j_nebulism]

Like that stubborn pinch of waist or belly fat?

No, still belly fat, but I wasn’t massively overweight. BMI was always towards the higher end of ‘normal’.

 

[birdwhacker]

I’m hardly in a crisis, just looking for intellectual exchange without the drone of the low and slow hand wringers.

I thing we share a similar sentiment regarding dosing.

I would like to know your opinion on staying at doses like 4-6mg until they lose effectiveness vs titrating at the one month mark.

I started at 1mg/3 days and am currently at 2mg/3 days, so 4.66mg per week. I titrated up by 2mg after the first month, and I think that was the right call.

I've been at 4.66 for nearly a month now and I still find it to be quite effective, in fact I'm struggling to eat anywhere close to maintainence even when I want to.

How did you titrate, and do you think it's a good idea to wait until things die down a bit suppression wise or to keep blindly titrating every month? My instinct is telling me to hold at 4.66 until it loses some efficacy. I suspect I will know when the time is right.

 

[birdwhacker]

Like that stubborn pinch of waist or belly fat?

I remember my dad going through his midlife crisis after the divorce desperately trying to cut that pinch of fat. Poor guy was eating mixing bowl after mixing bowl of cabbage and saurkraut, trying to afford vegetables for us to juice, cans of spinach and turnip greens. Kept working his abs hoping it would make them come through.

It looked like absolute torture. I'm so glad that 15 years later we have the technology to pull all of this off.

 

[BNLFL]

I thing we share a similar sentiment regarding dosing.

I would like to know your opinion on staying at doses like 4-6mg until they lose effectiveness vs titrating at the one month mark.

I started at 1mg/3 days and am currently at 2mg/3 days, so 4.66mg per week. I titrated up by 2mg after the first month, and I think that was the right call.

I've been at 4.66 for nearly a month now and I still find it to be quite effective, in fact I'm struggling to eat anywhere close to maintainence even when I want to.

How did you titrate, and do you think it's a good idea to wait until things die down a bit suppression wise or to keep blindly titrating every month? My instinct is telling me to hold at 4.66 until it loses some efficacy. I suspect I will know when the time is right.

I did 2-4mg for 4weeks and stayed on 6mg for 7 weeks till no changes that last week. Went to 7 for 2 weeks, losing again. Just went to 8mg, so we'll see on Friday. I've had zero side effects in about 2 weeks. Must be used to it. No heart burn at night when I lay down.