Low Testosterone, but Dr. says im in a normal range?

[lessthanhalf]

There is a lot of variation in what doctors will do with low or borderline testosterone results. I personally think it is kind of sexist, women are not refused hormone replacement therapy if symptomatic and menopausal, yet men with low test levels have to try to find a doctor who will be prepared to treat. In Australia you would not get prescribed testosterone most of the time if overweight with low test, the official advice is lose weight. I just think people are not comfortable with the idea of individuals having control of testosterone, it is just a weird cultural thing. To get it prescribed here I had to see an endocrinologist and was only treated due to being symptomatic, basically zero libido, and having high fsh/lh levels, if those levels were normal it would have been refused. In my case I noticed my testicles had actually shrunk, which I thought was pretty weird and why I got it checked out. The US is generally less strict.

Part of the reason is concerns about increasing risks of prostate cancer or heart disease, I think the evidence is fairly solid that at replacement levels heart disease is not increased but the research is not crystal clear and there are some studies showing increased risks, so if a doctor is being conservative or has not read the latest research, and most general doctors have not , which is reasonable, as there is more or less an infinite amount of research out there, they are going to avoid prescribing if they can. Just on first do no harm principles. The other reason for being careful is higher doses absolutely cause problems, no one on meso talks about the mental side effects of test but at higher doses problems with anger and aggression are real and common and depressed mood from sudden drops in level are common too.

So you either need to find a sympathetic doctor or a clinic that deals with test therapy or diy, I think being conservative on doses is a good idea, mainly as high doses do carry extra long term risks

 

[latviantower]

We have a Testosterone thread going, but this one is personal, plus since im on probation i can only post like once per hour so its really gotta count!

Dammit!!! All my brain fog, feeling tired all the time, pushing through with low energy and libido. I thought it was just cause i was fat. And today officially 101.5 pounds down and still feel all that.

I eat whole foods and protiens, stay away from unnatural sugars for the most part, work oit with stretching and weights for an hour or 2, 5 days a week. Oh and 7 to 12k steps daily by 330pm weekdays.

My muscles are hard as blocks of wood, but not growing, im yawning while trying to.lead these exercise classes, want a nap.by noon, im only 51yo? Was starting to think this was normal?

After getting back spectacular bloodwork where i went from prediabetic to not anymore, triglycerides that were off the charts to normal levels i became concerned that my energy and libido are still in the dirt, and asked for a testosterone test specifically. Came back really really low, explains SO MUCH. but then get a note from my dr saying i am in normal ranges?

Excuse me? Ive been hanging out on r/testosterone lately and no, im not in normal ranges and yes, over 50 with that low of test affects most dudes lives.

Im at a loss. Need to source a clinic or another source for test c. Ill continue getting bloodwork done, but at this point it looks like my dr. is not going to help me.

Its not like im sourcing gear to join bodybuilding competitions, im just trying to live a full life!!!

And, from everything ive read, test in my situation can be life changing, as long as I monitor it carefully.

* oh and mods, if you take me off of probation i swear on my last chances here i wont talk any further smack about any vendors no matter how i feel about them. Have learned my lesson. Also i just spent another big wad of cash at ERP even though all of thier coa's seem to be sourced from the times of ancient history... Can i say that?!?!?

Anyway, im a contributing member and i can be mostly good, ty dear for your kind consideration.

What I immediately noticed on your labs was the sad reality that the medical “authorities” can’t even agree on what “normal” looks like. I had my specimen collection at Quest, but ordered and reported by Goodlabs. Goodlabs apparently has two flavors of normal - “low normal” (yellow) and “normal normal” (green). I was at 453 total T, but you can see it’s still not in the green. Also Goodlabs heads into the red at 1000, Quest has it at 1100. You would be well into the red with low T at Goodlabs - they consider anything less than 300 low. So it’s a mess imo.

My PCP wouldn’t even order hormone labs, so I am left to navigate this on my own. I’m not going to Limitless Male or one of those places and pay through the nose (my insurance sucks). I feel like I’m better off ordering my own labs and remedies. Online communities (NON-Meso folks) are great resources. Soooo….I’m taking 175 mg test c weekly (25 mg daily first thing, subq for slow and steady absorption and less chance of aromatization), 2 iu hgh before bed, and 5 mg reta to counter the IGF increase caused by the hgh. That’s my peptide holy trinity. Labs every 8 weeks, no excuses.

Good luck Gr33dy! Btw, I think your posts are amusing. I missed the rant that apparently was the tipping point for the mods that led to you in the penalty box. I think Zippity finds his amusement in odd places - autocorrect algorithms (Fuck Rocks) and probation status being just two sources? (as a McGill grad BSc’82, I can only assume he went to Concordia. Twisted sense of humor there.)

 

[UpDownLeftRightAS*]

There’s a lot of research out there on natural testosterone production and how much it can fluctuate. When are you planning to get your next follow-up labs?

I’ve seen quite a few discussions around foods and routines that can help naturally, but if you’re not looking to jump straight to full TRT, you might consider enclomiphene (as others have mentioned). I started at 12.5 mg (about half a tablet) a few months ago just to see how I’d respond, and my levels went from the 400s to the 700s after about a month. It doesn’t shut down natural production, and I’ve even heard that 6.25 mg can be enough for some people while producing similar results.

My primary care doctor wouldn’t prescribe it either -- he said it wasn’t his area of comfort and offered to refer me to an endocrinologist. I mentioned that services like Hims offer it (though it can run around $2–4K per year), but I ended up sourcing it elsewhere.

Also, you probably already know this, but it’s worth reinforcing: sleep, stress, and calorie deficits can each reduce testosterone by 10–30%. If you’ve been in a significant calorie deficit, that alone could be a big factor in your lab results.

Good luck, man.

 

[Tbagger]

My PCP wouldn’t even order hormone labs, so I am left to navigate this on my own.

I'm seeing this trend now days where doctors are refusing to do simple things like order labs. If my PCP told me no when I ask to check something out, I'd be out of there and on an intake list at a new practice within minutes. I am upfront with my doctor and let her know that I am a grown ass man and not here to ask for permission or beg for anything. I let her know about all my peptide research and she knows I am resourceful enough to have access to every pharmaceutical drug and peptide ever made. So she is pretty cool and will advise me on things and let me know if my insurance will cover what I ask for, but the decisions are mine if I want to pay for them. Of course it's all within reason, like I cant walk in and demand opiates or anything. But denying a hormone panel is just weird and seems shady.

 

[igottapee]

I'm seeing this trend now days where doctors are refusing to do simple things like order labs. If my PCP told me no when I ask to check something out, I'd be out of there and on an intake list at a new practice within minutes. I am upfront with my doctor and let her know that I am a grown ass man and not here to ask for permission or beg for anything. I let her know about all my peptide research and she knows I am resourceful enough to have access to every pharmaceutical drug and peptide ever made. So she is pretty cool and will advise me on things and let me know if my insurance will cover what I ask for, but the decisions are mine if I want to pay for them. Of course it's all within reason, like I cant walk in and demand opiates or anything. But denying a hormone panel is just weird and seems shady.

it all depends on how your insurance handles it(what they pay for and what they don't)

 

[Turbo-Farmer]

There’s a lot of research out there on natural testosterone production and how much it can fluctuate. When are you planning to get your next follow-up labs?

I’ve seen quite a few discussions around foods and routines that can help naturally, but if you’re not looking to jump straight to full TRT, you might consider enclomiphene (as others have mentioned). I started at 12.5 mg (about half a tablet) a few months ago just to see how I’d respond, and my levels went from the 400s to the 700s after about a month. It doesn’t shut down natural production, and I’ve even heard that 6.25 mg can be enough for some people while producing similar results.

My primary care doctor wouldn’t prescribe it either -- he said it wasn’t his area of comfort and offered to refer me to an endocrinologist. I mentioned that services like Hims offer it (though it can run around $2–4K per year), but I ended up sourcing it elsewhere.

Also, you probably already know this, but it’s worth reinforcing: sleep, stress, and calorie deficits can each reduce testosterone by 10–30%. If you’ve been in a significant calorie deficit, that alone could be a big factor in your lab results.

Good luck, man.

H/H is 100 month for the echlomiphene + tandafil , hormone panels included at least quarterly

 

[swimmer]

Like Turbo-Farmer said, Enclomiphene citrate. My longevity Dr, gets it ordered through Pure Pharmacy. Works quite well, $300 for 90 - 25mg pills. That will last me over a year, daily 25mg took me from 690 to 1500++ in 3 months and 4X my Estradiol, fyi. I just restarted after a 6 month break from it, doing 2X a week after my surgery for 90 days. I'll check it then and adjust, don't need it but nice to have.

I have been doing 12.5 mg enclomiphene for 4 months now and have had great results. What you need to be aware of is that it can raise estrogen, shbg and tank your IGF-1 levels.

When I started, my total T went from my baseline of 600 to north of 1200. While lifting like a madman gains were minimal till I added tessa/ipa which brought my IGF-1 up to slightly more than my baseline. To lower estrogen I took a tiny amount of anastrozole every other day. I felt great and had good gains at the gym.

Me wanting even more gains started a cycle of osterine. Holy crap what a game changer. Two weeks into the ostarine cycle my total T was back down to 600 but my shbg went from super high to very low causing my free T to tripple!! I am almost finished with the 8 week Osterine cycle and my gains are way beyond what I expected. I am approached almost daily from people asking what I'm doing to look like this at my age (63). People think it is full blown AAS.

 

[swimmer]

I have been doing 12.5 mg enclomiphene for 4 months now and have had great results. What you need to be aware of is that it can raise estrogen, shbg and tank your IGF-1 levels.

When I started, my total T went from my baseline of 600 to north of 1200. While lifting like a madman gains were minimal till I added tessa/ipa which brought my IGF-1 up to slightly more than my baseline. To lower estrogen I took a tiny amount of anastrozole every other day. I felt great and had good gains at the gym.

Me wanting even more gains started a cycle of osterine. Holy crap what a game changer. Two weeks into the ostarine cycle my total T was back down to 600 but my shbg went from super high to very low causing my free T to tripple!! I am almost finished with the 8 week Osterine cycle and my gains are way beyond what I expected. I am approached almost daily from people asking what I'm doing to look like this at my age (63). People think it is full blown AAS.

I think Enclo is a great alternative to Test but you might need to address the side effects to enjoy the benefits of higher testosterone levels. Tests to monitor IGF-1, shbg, estroidal and free T are important.

 

[Crumplestiltskin]

One of the most valuable things I've learned over the years: I can fire my doctor. I had too many primary care drs who would refuse routine lab work, have no answers for health problems (and no interest in finding answers), and were all-around totally unhelpful.

When someone said "fire your doctor" that made a huge difference in mindset.

 

[lessthanhalf]

I have been doing 12.5 mg enclomiphene for 4 months now and have had great results. What you need to be aware of is that it can raise estrogen, shbg and tank your IGF-1 levels.

When I started, my total T went from my baseline of 600 to north of 1200. While lifting like a madman gains were minimal till I added tessa/ipa which brought my IGF-1 up to slightly more than my baseline. To lower estrogen I took a tiny amount of anastrozole every other day. I felt great and had good gains at the gym.

Me wanting even more gains started a cycle of osterine. Holy crap what a game changer. Two weeks into the ostarine cycle my total T was back down to 600 but my shbg went from super high to very low causing my free T to tripple!! I am almost finished with the 8 week Osterine cycle and my gains are way beyond what I expected. I am approached almost daily from people asking what I'm doing to look like this at my age (63). People think it is full blown AAS.

I am interested in ostarine, there was an interesting study on it combined with semiglutide at very low doses, showing very little muscle loss with doses of 3mg. I have not found a place yet with pills that has it in stock. At that dose it works out to be ridiculously cheap , but getting 3mg out of 25mg pills is going to be a pain. Do you mind answering what dose you are using?

 

[CNCCurrency]

Thank you!!! That site and price are awesome, good looking out Airborne!!!

Woot woot!

Watch your hgb levels

 

[swimmer]

I am interested in ostarine, there was an interesting study on it combined with semiglutide at very low doses, showing very little muscle loss with doses of 3mg. I have not found a place yet with pills that has it in stock. At that dose it works out to be ridiculously cheap , but getting 3mg out of 25mg pills is going to be a pain. Do you mind answering what dose you are using?

The first 2 weeks 12.5mg per day. Week 3 I went to 25 mg per day. 12.5 was enough to significantly lower SHBG and triple my freeT levels. The capsules are 12.5 mg. I get it from Umbrella Labs. I also get my Enclo from them.

 

[Tbagger]

it all depends on how your insurance handles it(what they pay for and what they don't)

That's what I said. She will let me know if insurance will cover it or if I have to pay out of pocket, but the decision is mine.

 

[RubbaDubba1]

I have been doing 12.5 mg enclomiphene for 3 months now and have had great results. What you need to be aware of is that it can raise estrogen, shbg and tank your IGF-1 levels. When I started, my total T went from my baseline of 600 to north of 1200. While lifting like a madman gains were minimal till I added tessa/ipa which brought my IGF-1 up to slightly more than my baseline. To lower estrogen I took a tiny amount of anastrozole every other day. I felt great and had good gains at the gym. Me wanting even more gains started a cycle of osterine. Holy crap what a game changer. Two weeks into the ostarine cycle my total T was back down to 600 but my shbg went from super high to very low causing my free T to tripple!! I am almost finished with the 8 week Osterine cycle and my gains are way beyond what I expected. I am approached almost daily from people asking what I'm doing to look like this at my age. People think it is full blown AAS.

Owe yeah, you can see the post you linked my Estradiol was 161 at it's highest. It took a year to get it back down to normal. I've been doing 2x a week after surgery, then 1x a week. I'm on CJC/Ipamorelin 100mcg each & IGF-1 LR3 20mcg 5on/2off, which I have you to thank for the advice on that I literally did nothing (Dr,s orders) for 11 days after this shoulder surgery, got some cabin fever. Just started PT and had my post-op yesterday, I'm in a sling for 8 weeks. I'm not going crazy (yet), but I plan on running a full panel in 6-8 weeks make sure nothing is too weird after all these peps and supplements.

Damn you're light years ahead of me bro, I wanna mow the lawn, walk the dog and get to retirement and still be upright.

 

[Volkswagen57]

Since youre a nut job and were buddies ill share my domestic oils guy.... Primalpharma.org ..... tiktoks on him so i dont consider it a security breech....

Primal pharma doesn't have great feedback on meso, I personally passed on their product because of that. @Airborne Daddy I actually, see you commenting on a thread about primal pharma quality, not throwing shade at you, Just curious why you still recommend them after reading those reviews? Do you have the vials you purchased tested through Jano? From what I gather their product is underdosed. Correct me if I'm wrong

 

[swimmer]

Owe yeah, you can see the post you linked my Estradiol was 161 at it's highest. It took a year to get it back down to normal. I've been doing 2x a week after surgery, then 1x a week. I'm on CJC/Ipamorelin 100mcg each & IGF-1 LR3 20mcg 5on/2off, which I have you to thank for the advice on that I literally did nothing (Dr,s orders) for 11 days after this shoulder surgery, got some cabin fever. Just started PT and had my post-op yesterday, I'm in a sling for 8 weeks. I'm not going crazy (yet), but I plan on running a full panel in 6-8 weeks make sure nothing is too weird after all these peps and supplements.

Damn you're light years ahead of me bro, I wanna mow the lawn, walk the dog and get to retirement and still be upright.

Good luck with your recovery!! The growth hormone secretologes should help.

 

[RubbaDubba1]

Good luck with your recovery!! The growth hormone secretologes should help.

Thank you, I literally gotta do this again next year. If this goes well, I'll repeat for the other shoulder and hopefully get this elbow and wrist fixed to. I hope to get back to work early, as a 60% paycheck Sux. At least I'm not driving anywhere right now, ha!

 

[Airborne Daddy]

Primal pharma doesn't have great feedback on meso, I personally passed on their product because of that. @Airborne Daddy I actually, see you commenting on a thread about primal pharma quality, not throwing shade at you, Just curious why you still recommend them after reading those reviews? Do you have the vials you purchased tested through Jano? From what I gather their product is underdosed. Correct me if I'm wrong

He has haters cuz he sold chinese primo as his own.... its not unusual for 3 of us to send in a vial of test cyp 200 and get back a 204, 195 and 188 its all within 10% variation which includes typical 2 or 3% lab variation which is acceptable and inline with other domestic sources.

He had high dosed tren 400 that may have picked up plastic contamination during brewing. He compensated and made upgrades to his lab continuously. Newbies jammed a needle in their quad and got welts and red lumps. They were refunded. Quads are super sensitive and i wont go there but that can happen to anyone whos technique isnt perfect.

He tests and posts all his raws and finished products and will reimburse or give you credit to test yourself. Every vendor in the history of meso has issues, lovers and haters. I use him cuz ive had no issues through 3 different batches and it works for me. Thought about tossing some when a few folks had issues with mct oil but opened a vial and it was fine with me. Remember if 6 people have an issue, 2 or 300 dont.... Lastly, i shared a source with an acquaintence of mine because hes looking and i use the source. My post wasnt a promo for everyone. I get nothing and dont need to with his prices when i use less than 300 dollars worth a year.

So yes i hit a point with all the drama and became skeptical and left the thread. Im comfortable with the guy, had no issues last year, am currently using at trt dose and will be using the mast, tren and test i have on hand for summer. Theres lots of good reviews not including guys that are happy but refrain from posting on a steroid forum. To me its a handful of non fans cuz he was caught in lies.... some dont care as we dont have expectations from a drug dealer. Even Stanford had issues and hes been there years and years... now with a hefty minimum order.

 

[Volkswagen57]

He has haters cuz he sold chinese primo as his own.... its not unusual for 3 of us to send in a vial of test cyp 200 and get back a 204, 195 and 188 its all within 10% variation which includes typical 2 or 3% lab variation which is acceptable and inline with other domestic sources.

He had high dosed tren 400 that may have picked up plastic contamination during brewing. He compensated and made upgrades to his lab continuously. Newbies jammed a needle in their quad and got welts and red lumps. They were refunded. Quads are super sensitive and i wont go there but that can happen to anyone whos technique isnt perfect.

He tests and posts all his raws and finished products and will reimburse or give you credit to test yourself. Every vendor in the history of meso has issues, lovers and haters. I use him cuz ive had no issues through 3 different batches and it works for me. Thought about tossing some when a few folks had issues with mct oil but opened a vial and it was fine with me. Remember if 6 people have an issue, 2 or 300 dont.... Lastly, i shared a source with an acquaintence of mine because hes looking and i use the source. My post wasnt a promo for everyone. I get nothing and dont need to with his prices when i use less than 300 dollars worth a year.

So yes i hit a point with all the drama and became skeptical and left the thread. Im comfortable with the guy, had no issues last year, am currently using at trt dose and will be using the mast, tren and test i have on hand for summer. Theres lots of good reviews not including guys that are happy but refrain from posting on a steroid forum. To me its a handful of non fans cuz he was caught in lies.... some dont care as we dont have expectations from a drug dealer. Even Stanford had issues and hes been there years and years... now with a hefty minimum order.

I appreciate you responding. I only read through a couple pages of that thread. Good information. Perhaps I will give his product a try. My last order was from Sha off of the SST forum. I got enough tests to last me over a year. But have been interested in NPP and primo

 

[mraajr]

Primal pharma doesn't have great feedback on meso, I personally passed on their product because of that. @Airborne Daddy I actually, see you commenting on a thread about primal pharma quality, not throwing shade at you, Just curious why you still recommend them after reading those reviews? Do you have the vials you purchased tested through Jano? From what I gather their product is underdosed. Correct me if I'm wrong

Primal is mostly fine. Underdosed is not something you see from them very often. Recently a vial of EQ, but all the EQ since has tested fine. Most of the hate comes from the CN Primo they sold as Domestic and lied about it until they were caught. Super easy to deal with. Super fast shipping. If you are only going to be using them for TRT the Test, E, C, and P is all on point.

You'll notice the loudest voices over there almost never comment on the 98% of good testing they have. 2% is not too bad in the UGL game in my opinion and the dude will always make it right if something is messed up. My second order with them the tracking didn't move for 7 days and all I did was ask about it (not bitching or trying to get anything out of them) and he immediately reshipped the order and told me if the other shows up, no biggie. They both showed up a couple days later.