Just to confirm, sorry...

[AKC97]

There are several Jano interviews out there but this one talks about GH degradation and how it is much more stable than initially thought and gets into peptides toward the middle. A lot of this interview is about purity, peds testing, and touches on technical topics but not super deep.

Jano also participates in a few Discords, this snippet is from late 2024 when there was some degraded reta and potential causes for what took a bit to determine what was pushing the purity lower in the tests, I believe the conclusion was not related to storage rather degraded raws prior to lyophilization but don't quote me on that, digging thru discord history is problematic w/ comments and users deleting messages if they are not agreed with. These are taken from the round table, usernames redacted but not relevant, these are public messages if you want to find them yourself

View attachment 7128

From Oct 2024

View attachment 7129

This is excellent information and I'm looking forward to watching the video. Thank you

 

[esdsafepoet]

IMHO that's one of those things so insignificant that it's mind-bottling to watch people get excessively concerned about and is kind of a red herring if you ask me. We're talking such tiny fractions that the general public doesn't even have the ability to measure unless they work in a lab. You'll lose more volume due to surface tension on the interior glass of a vial than the difference between a 4mm and 13mm filter.

Maybe I found some bad information, but I read that I'd lose 0.1-0.15mL on a 13mm filter. When I'm dealing with volumes of 1mL, that's 10-15%, which isn't negligible.

 

[nonyabizznez]

If I had to do without, the vent filter used in the video and written instructions would be the first to go:

OTOH:

Harm Reduction - Still Air Box

Oct 6, 2024

Lately I have seen lots of talk about filtering but one thing I have not seen is discussion of the use of a still air box to reduce chance of contamination during the process. In many discussions and videos they talk about wiping down the area and wearing gloves etc. The reality is the most likely source of contamination is the air while the needle is exposed and going into the vial assuming you follow good technique and don't touch dirty to clean.

Ideally we would work in a laminar flow hood. These can be made or procured for a few hundred $ to couple grand. However we can greatly...

IGezs

Replies: 14

Forum: Public Square

Thanks for digging up my quote which I stand by. I think the 2nd filter on the vent instruction is an attempt at selling twice as many filters.

 

[Calm Logic]

I've seen some folks on here say they dose every 5 days. Is that pretty common? I've been debating on whether to do 7.5mg/7days or maybe try 5mg/5days.

Yes, from what I have read here.

(I would rather just up the weekly dose, even above 15 mg if necessary.)

 

[Calm Logic]

Thanks for digging up my quote which I stand by. I think the 2nd filter on the vent instruction is an attempt at selling twice as many filters.

I can almost get Google Gemini to completely agree with you:

If you're working with very small volumes of peptide solution in tightly sealed vials or tubes, the surface area exposed to the air is minimal, and the risk of contamination or moisture absorption might be considered low enough to forgo a dedicated vent filter.

I'll skip it next time, which was my instinct when I first saw the video.

 

[zpped]

Interesting. I don't have syringe filters specifically, but I do have BD filter needles. Could I use a filter needle to extract the reconstituted peptide solution, then swap out to a regular needle to push into the new vial? I know syringe filters do a higher level of filtration than filter needles, but would 5 microns be sufficient?

5 microns is not sufficient for bacteria.

According to my Fluke 179 temp probe, my mini freezer gets to around -16C, so hopefully good enough. My plan is to put the vials in a Pelican 1120, then stick them in the mini freezer. Hopefully they'll last at least 1-2 years in there.

Colder is better but you're over thinking this one. Tirz is incredibly hardy and would do just fine in your cupboard for a few years.

I can almost get Google Gemini to completely agree with you:

I'll skip it next time, which was my instinct when I first saw the video.

It's overkill but it's not made up. SOP for pharmacies is to use a vent needle with filter.

 

[esdsafepoet]

5 microns is not sufficient for bacteria.

Colder is better but you're over thinking this one. Tirz is incredibly hardy and would do just fine in your cupboard for a few years.

Ya, I ordered some of the 22 micron filters, and am looking into centrifuges now for virus filtration. This is a fun little rabbithole.

It's hard to get a feel for just how well tirz holds up. So many different and contradicting bits of information I've found on it.

 

[zpped]

Ya, I ordered some of the 22 micron filters, and am looking into centrifuges now for virus filtration. This is a fun little rabbithole.

It's hard to get a feel for just how well tirz holds up. So many different and contradicting bits of information I've found on it.

I'm going to assume the centrifuge is a joke but you can't ever tell around here.

Yeah, there are a lot of people that confidently repeat things that they don't know anything about (and are wrong). It's usually an issue of not understanding the nuance. But I can tell you I've personally seen the test results of a vial of tirz stored in a closet for a year and a half and it was fine.

 

[esdsafepoet]

I'm going to assume the centrifuge is a joke but you can't ever tell around here.

You're the second person who said that, I'm not sure why. The 0.22 micron filters can't get everything, especially viruses, and we're dealing with gray market products. So why is it such a crazy idea?

As an alternative to centrifuges for virus filtration, I also found these:

Whatman Anotop 10 Plus syringe filters pore size 0.02 um, diam. 10 mm, sterile, glass microfiber prefilter Whatman filter

Whatman® Anotop® 10 Plus syringe filters pore size 0.02 μm, diam. 10 mm, sterile, glass microfiber prefilter; Synonyms: Whatman filter,Z747726,syringe filter,syringe filters at Sigma-Aldrich

www.sigmaaldrich.com

0.02 micron with prefilter for larger particles. Most viruses are larger than 20nm, so should filter them out.

 

[zpped]

You're the second person who said that, I'm not sure why. The 0.22 micron filters can't get everything, especially viruses, and we're dealing with gray market products. So why is it such a crazy idea?

As an alternative to centrifuges for virus filtration, I also found these:

Whatman Anotop 10 Plus syringe filters pore size 0.02 um, diam. 10 mm, sterile, glass microfiber prefilter Whatman filter

Whatman® Anotop® 10 Plus syringe filters pore size 0.02 μm, diam. 10 mm, sterile, glass microfiber prefilter; Synonyms: Whatman filter,Z747726,syringe filter,syringe filters at Sigma-Aldrich

www.sigmaaldrich.com

0.02 micron with prefilter for larger particles. Most viruses are larger than 20nm, so should filter them out.

What virus are you concerned about that would survive in large enough numbers to cause you issues that wouldn't also just be in the air in what ever room you're injecting in? If you have a specific concern, I might be able to find someone with expertise who can address it.

I mean, you do you. But there are 10s of thousands of people injecting this stuff every day without any filter.

 

[esdsafepoet]

What virus are you concerned about that would survive in large enough numbers to cause you issues that wouldn't also just be in the air in what ever room you're injecting in? If you have a specific concern, I might be able to find someone with expertise who can address it.

I mean, you do you. But there are 10s of thousands of people injecting this stuff every day without any filter.

Not a particular virus, but just general QC concern. Plus some pathogens can take a long time to show themselves.

A few thoughts on this whole filtration rabbithole:

1) As someone relatively new to this, it’s hard to know what’s truly necessary. What would help ease that uncertainty is some kind of consistent voice from the community—but that’s not what I’m seeing. After doing my homework, comparing vendors, and placing an order based on what seemed to be a solid reputation, I then came across threads harshly criticizing that same vendor. The level of disagreement makes it tough to know who or what to trust, and as a newcomer, I can’t assume that any advice is universally reliable.

2) This is, at the end of the day, gray market territory. We don’t really know what’s in some of these products. There have already been reports of contamination, which makes it clear that proper handling isn’t guaranteed. With that in mind, I see little downside to exploring extra precautions.

3) When you compare the cost of peptides through a U.S. pharmacy to the cost of basic lab equipment, the equipment starts to look like a pretty modest investment. I've already spent thousands at my local pharmacy, and if I’d taken this route earlier, I could’ve had a solid setup by now. Plus, much of that gear is a one-time purchase—not a recurring cost.

I’m not saying any of this is necessary. I’m just acknowledging that I don’t know for sure—and with all the conflicting opinions I see, it’s hard to rely on anything but my own judgment.

 

[PurpleCatFur]

At what point do we filter out the peptide we are seeking?

as of a few months ago Jano stated he uses 0.22um and TrustPointe uses 0.45um filters for HPLC testing to prevent damage to their equipment.

 

[zpped]

At what point do we filter out the peptide we are seeking?

as of a few months ago Jano stated he uses 0.22um and TrustPointe uses 0.45um filters for HPLC testing to prevent damage to their equipment.

Tirz is roughly 5kDalton which is roughly 1nm (0.001um)

 

[zpped]

Not a particular virus, but just general QC concern. Plus some pathogens can take a long time to show themselves.

A few thoughts on this whole filtration rabbithole:

1) As someone relatively new to this, it’s hard to know what’s truly necessary. What would help ease that uncertainty is some kind of consistent voice from the community—but that’s not what I’m seeing. After doing my homework, comparing vendors, and placing an order based on what seemed to be a solid reputation, I then came across threads harshly criticizing that same vendor. The level of disagreement makes it tough to know who or what to trust, and as a newcomer, I can’t assume that any advice is universally reliable.

2) This is, at the end of the day, gray market territory. We don’t really know what’s in some of these products. There have already been reports of contamination, which makes it clear that proper handling isn’t guaranteed. With that in mind, I see little downside to exploring extra precautions.

3) When you compare the cost of peptides through a U.S. pharmacy to the cost of basic lab equipment, the equipment starts to look like a pretty modest investment. I've already spent thousands at my local pharmacy, and if I’d taken this route earlier, I could’ve had a solid setup by now. Plus, much of that gear is a one-time purchase—not a recurring cost.

I’m not saying any of this is necessary. I’m just acknowledging that I don’t know for sure—and with all the conflicting opinions I see, it’s hard to rely on anything but my own judgment.

No, I understand where you're coming from. Which is why I'm trying to ask pointed questions to help you think about it.

1) Agreement is never going to happen. And you shouldn't take everything I say at face value either. The best thing you can do is ask someone WHY are you stating something. What knowledge or experience are they basing it on. I'm an engineer not a medical professional. What I will tell you, is you've just barely started to scratch the surface of this community.

2) Agreed, but some kinds of contamination are more likely than others. Also, what is the consequences different kinds of contamination. What about heavy metals, what about endotoxins. (These are also not a concern, but at some point you should learn why they aren't)

3) It definitely feels that way when you're getting started. But I also don't believe in spending money for no good reason. (And I'm one of the rare few around here that could easily afford to pay full pharma prices)

To put it in perspective, I think most of the experts would liken using a centrifuge to walking through the park with a motorcycle helmet on. Are you safer? Theoretically...