How fragile are peptides?

[TheNorthernDude]

I’ve been researching peptides heavily last month or two and one thing has struck me. Reconstitution guides stress being careful adding solution to not damage the peptides and mixing/rolling very gently for the same reason. But these same peptides are shipped through carriers that I guarantee are dropping/throwing the packages, both the powder and reconstituted forms. Are they actually that fragile? Are they only fragile during the transition from powder to solute? I’ve tried to find answers but there’s so much conflicting info. Want to know how careful I actually need to be with them

 

[clevesand]

this has really been on my mind as well.

 

[Garbo]

I’ve been researching peptides heavily last month or two and one thing has struck me. Reconstitution guides stress being careful adding solution to not damage the peptides and mixing/rolling very gently for the same reason. But these same peptides are shipped through carriers that I guarantee are dropping/throwing the packages, both the powder and reconstituted forms. Are they actually that fragile? Are they only fragile during the transition from powder to solute? I’ve tried to find answers but there’s so much conflicting info. Want to know how careful I actually need to be with them

My belief, based on a lot of time looking into this: The emphasis on fragility has been *greatly* exaggerated. Peptide scientists (professionals who make peptides for commercial medical use) I've read are *not* concerned. And like you, so many of us have asked this same question that JANOSHIK himself posted a "short" on YouTube where he shoots the bac water into a vial with gleeful abandon, and then shakes the hell out of it. Then, he tested it against a "coddled" vial. THERE WAS NO DIFFERENCE. So for me, case closed. I hope you do not stress about this issue any longer. Enjoy the little video.

 

[Revo39564]

The tirz comes out in a raw form from the chemical plant….then it is finished and sterilized . it is processed, filtered freeze dried again …. That has to be a rough process.

 

[MingHenry]

My belief, based on a lot of time looking into this: The emphasis on fragility has been *greatly* exaggerated. Peptide scientists (professionals who make peptides for commercial medical use) I've read are *not* concerned. And like you, so many of us have asked this same question that JANOSHIK himself posted a "short" on YouTube where he shoots the bac water into a vial with gleeful abandon, and then shakes the hell out of it. Then, he tested it against a "coddled" vial. THERE WAS NO DIFFERENCE. So for me, case closed. I hope you do not stress about this issue any longer. Enjoy the little video.

That is SO funny to watch! Well, guess being one's own chemist will be far easier than anticipated.

 

[Broken Chef]

I had this same concern when I started and even found this info stated on a legit respectable medical website - Cochrane. However, I read somewhere that this only applies to certain peptides. While I don't know which those might be, it doesn't seem to apply to glp1's. I've not personally experimented enough to be able to say for sure 1 way or another. But I asked this of multiple people in the beginning and the consensus was that the dripping down the side of the vial and gently swirling is not necessary. I'm probably more skeptical than most, and often rely on what my grandpa told me - Believe nothing you hear or read, and only half of what you see. I have read a lot of contradicting info over the last 3 months. That Jano Q&A dispelled several things that I'd heard numerous times. But even someone with 20 years experience can be wrong, so this remains unsolved in my mind.

I attempted to drip in the first vial I recon'd but was not aware of negative pressure, so the bac water was in and it foamed before I could blink.

Next vial I injected a bit of air first and held the plunger at the tube so I could drip.

I will say that I've noticed less food noise control from research sema vs brand name ozempic. Could that be due to damaged peptides from that blasting the water in? I have no clue.

Since we can do whatever we want, I now strive to release pressure and drip. That first vial lasted me 3 months of titration, so I'm just now starting my second vial, which I dripped down the side, so I'm at the very beginning of testing the difference.

That said, I will add that the bac water blasted into my first vial still had significant results as my appetite is less than half what it was, food noise is significantly reduced, and I've lost 15# without changing what I eat - I just eat less and less frequently. And I don't exercise due to severe chronic pain - 8 herniated discs and 11 bone spurs. So it's working just fine!

So I can say that blasting the water in does not destroy the peptides. Might it slightly harm them resulting in slightly less efficacy... Maybe, a little tiny bit, but not enough to worry about.

I will strive to drip, because my OCD dictates that I do that, but also will not throw out a vial that was blasted with bac.

 

[Drexeldragon216]

I also wonder about the fragility at room temp. Obviously a dark, cool space is needed, but do they really break down significantly if say stored in a cool dark place, such as a climate controlled closet? I’ve read 30-60 days in that type of environment, but then what? I know a lot of people, if not most, say fridge or freezer for tirz peptides that are not reconstituted. I’m not familiar with the Q&A that Janoshik did.

 

[Garbo]

I had this same concern when I started and even found this info stated on a legit respectable medical website - Cochrane. However, I read somewhere that this only applies to certain peptides. While I don't know which those might be, it doesn't seem to apply to glp1's. I've not personally experimented enough to be able to say for sure 1 way or another. But I asked this of multiple people in the beginning and the consensus was that the dripping down the side of the vial and gently swirling is not necessary. I'm probably more skeptical than most, and often rely on what my grandpa told me - Believe nothing you hear or read, and only half of what you see. I have read a lot of contradicting info over the last 3 months. That Jano Q&A dispelled several things that I'd heard numerous times. But even someone with 20 years experience can be wrong, so this remains unsolved in my mind.

I attempted to drip in the first vial I recon'd but was not aware of negative pressure, so the bac water was in and it foamed before I could blink.

Next vial I injected a bit of air first and held the plunger at the tube so I could drip.

I will say that I've noticed less food noise control from research sema vs brand name ozempic. Could that be due to damaged peptides from that blasting the water in? I have no clue.

Since we can do whatever we want, I now strive to release pressure and drip. That first vial lasted me 3 months of titration, so I'm just now starting my second vial, which I dripped down the side, so I'm at the very beginning of testing the difference.

That said, I will add that the bac water blasted into my first vial still had significant results as my appetite is less than half what it was, food noise is significantly reduced, and I've lost 15# without changing what I eat - I just eat less and less frequently. And I don't exercise due to severe chronic pain - 8 herniated discs and 11 bone spurs. So it's working just fine!

So I can say that blasting the water in does not destroy the peptides. Might it slightly harm them resulting in slightly less efficacy... Maybe, a little tiny bit, but not enough to worry about.

I will strive to drip, because my OCD dictates that I do that, but also will not throw out a vial that was blasted with bac.

Hi, Chef! Just want to say that, although I try to reassure people stressed out by warnings about fragility, by nature and practice I tend to treat things gently. When I reconstitute, I let it drip down the side as I slowly rotate the vial. I enjoy that, it's a little moment of Zen. And of course, I'm careful with the product, whether in lyophilized form or reconstituted. It is so valuable, and so valued. But! It's good to know that, if I accidentally drop one, etc, I haven't ruined anything

 

[meowTime]

Hi, Chef! Just want to say that, although I try to reassure people stressed out by warnings about fragility, by nature and practice I tend to treat things gently. When I reconstitute, I let it drip down the side as I slowly rotate the vial. I enjoy that, it's a little moment of Zen. And of course, I'm careful with the product, whether in lyophilized form or reconstituted. It is so valuable, and so valued. But! It's good to know that, if I accidentally drop one, etc, I haven't ruined anything

Are we not reconstituting with the vial upside-down? I've just been going by the youtube video from Denver Sports Recovery.

 

[Garbo]

Are we not reconstituting with the vial upside-down? I've just been going by the youtube video from Denver Sports Recovery.

Oh gosh, I've never even thought of doing that. How interesting…maybe a lot of people are doing that and I had no idea?!?

 

[Broken Chef]

Are we not reconstituting with the vial upside-down? I've just been going by the youtube video from Denver Sports Recovery.

Never heard of that, though, as I said, I only have limited experience. I don't see why it wouldn't work... Inject the bac, then tip it upright to let it run into the puck.

From my limited experience, it seems that most people don't even take these things into consideration.. they just inject it however it happens and move along.

it's a little moment of Zen

Agreed!

I also wonder about the fragility at room temp.

YAY!!! My brain just heard "I'll see your OCD 10 and raise you OCD 20".

I'm ALL IN! High five!

There's plenty of info on this. Some kits even come with a 3 year exp date printed on them. My understanding is 3 years in a dark (no sunlight) location at room temp, and potentially indefinitely in a lab freezer at -112°f (I bet that thing is EXPENSIVE). It would be cool if someone had some tested after like 5 and 10 years of storage in a regular manual defrost freezer to see what actual degradation is. Also, you don't want to store them in your fridge freezer because of the varying temps during defrost cycle, UNLESS you put the vials in a thermos to protect from that. And I've heard some say they just surround them with ice packs to protect from defrost cycle. This too, is debated a bit.

I keep my excess in the middle of a manual defrost chest freezer at about -6°f.

I know there are people reading this and just shaking their heads, lol. Can we rename this thread, PEPTIDE OCD 101??

We are worrying about things that most don't even consider.

Keep lyophilized in the freezer.. and keep reconstituted in the fridge - fridge light won't hurt them... is generally were this subject ends with most people.

As for shelf life after recon - it seems like most people use them for 2-3 months after recon, but I've talked to people who have gone 6 months without a problem. Personally, 3 months is my cut off, but that's generally just for loading. Vials don't usually have enough in them to last past 6-8 weeks. I go shorter if I can .. I just added another RS, so I recon 1 vial and work out of that for both subjects.

Those in Europe don't have access to bac water, they use sterile water. If we ever get to that here, I'm thinking I'd just get lower mg vials so they get used up in 1-2 weeks. I believe sterile water doesn't keep as long as bac water... At least that's what I read.

Nothing I said should be taken seriously or seen as my advice to anyone. It's simply my rambling thoughts and understanding based on my research. You should not take what I say as fact! You should do your own research and decide these things for yourself!!! This is the way!

 

[Drexeldragon216]

Never heard of that, though, as I said, I only have limited experience. I don't see why it wouldn't work... Inject the bac, then tip it upright to let it run into the puck.

From my limited experience, it seems that most people don't even take these things into consideration.. they just inject it however it happens and move along.

Agreed!

YAY!!! My brain just heard "I'll see your OCD 10 and raise you OCD 20".

I'm ALL IN! High five!

There's plenty of info on this. Some kits even come with a 3 year exp date printed on them. My understanding is 3 years in a dark (no sunlight) location at room temp, and potentially indefinitely in a lab freezer at -112°f (I bet that thing is EXPENSIVE). It would be cool if someone had some tested after like 5 and 10 years of storage in a regular manual defrost freezer to see what actual degradation is. Also, you don't want to store them in your fridge freezer because of the varying temps during defrost cycle, UNLESS you put the vials in a thermos to protect from that. And I've heard some say they just surround them with ice packs to protect from defrost cycle. This too, is debated a bit.

I keep my excess in the middle of a manual defrost chest freezer at about -6°f.

I know there are people reading this and just shaking their heads, lol. Can we rename this thread, PEPTIDE OCD 101??

We are worrying about things that most don't even consider.

Keep lyophilized in the freezer.. and keep reconstituted in the fridge - fridge light won't hurt them... is generally were this subject ends with most people.

As for shelf life after recon - it seems like most people use them for 2-3 months after recon, but I've talked to people who have gone 6 months without a problem. Personally, 3 months is my cut off, but that's generally just for loading. Vials don't usually have enough in them to last past 6-8 weeks. I go shorter if I can .. I just added another RS, so I recon 1 vial and work out of that for both subjects.

Those in Europe don't have access to bac water, they use sterile water. If we ever get to that here, I'm thinking I'd just get lower mg vials so they get used up in 1-2 weeks. I believe sterile water doesn't keep as long as bac water... At least that's what I read.

Nothing I said should be taken seriously or seen as my advice to anyone. It's simply my rambling thoughts and understanding based on my research. You should not take what I say as fact! You should do your own research and decide these things for yourself!!! This is the way!

Love it! I’m glad I’m not the only one with OCD around here haha!

 

[MingHenry]

If OCD includes constant research, then I guess I have more than a touch of it too. But there are facts I am limited by. I live in an apartment. I could not explain the addition of a manual defrost freezer appearing in my living room. I did however put vials into a case and wrapped the case in tin foil and put that into a baggie and got out as much air as I could because I am not going to buy a food vacuum sealer because that too would be an unexpected surprise if it appeared in my home. It is harder to find a cool dark place than I would have imagined, despite cabinets and closets galore. There is, however, a thermometer app on my phone and I walked around using it everywhere. I have watched many reconstitution videos but thank you @meowTime for the YouTube Denver recovery suggestion, because I found it and watched and downloaded it and that's what I'll go with!

 

[Drexeldragon216]

If OCD includes constant research, then I guess I have more than a touch of it too. But there are facts I am limited by. I live in an apartment. I could not explain the addition of a manual defrost freezer appearing in my living room. I did however put vials into a case and wrapped the case in tin foil and put that into a baggie and got out as much air as I could because I am not going to buy a food vacuum sealer because that too would be an unexpected surprise if it appeared in my home. It is harder to find a cool dark place than I would have imagined, despite cabinets and closets galore. There is, however, a thermometer app on my phone and I walked around using it everywhere. I have watched many reconstitution videos but thank you @meowTime for the YouTube Denver recovery suggestion, because I found it and watched and downloaded it and that's what I'll go with!

Where did your phone end up leading you for storage? I bought one of those infrared thermometer guns a while back and spent more time than I’d like to admit measuring the temp of basically everything in my house out of curiosity.

 

[MingHenry]

Where did your phone end up leading you for storage? I bought one of those infrared thermometer guns a while back and spent more time than I’d like to admit measuring the temp of basically everything in my house out of curiosity.

I can't stop laughing! I just used my phone - was delighted to discover that there is a thermometer app already on it! The coolest place seems to be on a low shelf in the closet walking into my bedroom..cooler than under the sink or in the bedroom closet or in my study in that closet or in the pantry or any of the cabinets in there or on any of the shelves in the credenzas in my living room. I was stunned to find that I have very little available space left anywhere in my home. Including in my freezer! All those bags of Trader Joe's fresh frozen strawberries and raspberries and cherries and peach slices and all the ice packs from my very recent knee replacement surgery - and I just wanted a little nestled spot for those goddamn Chinese vials.

 

[Drexeldragon216]

I can't stop laughing! I just used my phone - was delighted to discover that there is a thermometer app already on it! The coolest place seems to be on a low shelf in the closet walking into my bedroom..cooler than under the sink or in the bedroom closet or in my study in that closet or in the pantry or any of the cabinets in there or on any of the shelves in the credenzas in my living room. I was stunned to find that I have very little available space left anywhere in my home. Including in my freezer! All those bags of Trader Joe's fresh frozen strawberries and raspberries and cherries and peach slices and all the ice packs from my very recent knee replacement surgery - and I just wanted a little nestled spot for those goddamn Chinese vials.

Your freezer sounds exactly like mine! I miss the days of the side by side instead of the drawer style. Space is severely limited. I also don’t want to invest in a medical type freezer for 2, maybe 3, kits. Sounds like someone is gonna need to break out the trusty thermometer and get to shooting!

 

[MingHenry]

Your freezer sounds exactly like mine! I miss the days of the side by side instead of the drawer style. Space is severely limited. I also don’t want to invest in a medical type freezer for 2, maybe 3, kits. Sounds like someone is gonna need to break out the trusty thermometer and get to shooting!

I think in the interest of our mental health we just have to make do with what we have! I'd love to have that side by side fridge/freezer but that would necessitate a total kitchen renovation! And a medical freezer would be great but then I'd probably lose my pantry! Get that thermometer out and look forward to hearing where your cool spot is!

 

[Broken Chef]

If OCD includes constant research, then I guess I have more than a touch of it too. But there are facts I am limited by. I live in an apartment. I could not explain the addition of a manual defrost freezer appearing in my living room. I did however put vials into a case and wrapped the case in tin foil and put that into a baggie and got out as much air as I could because I am not going to buy a food vacuum sealer because that too would be an unexpected surprise if it appeared in my home. It is harder to find a cool dark place than I would have imagined, despite cabinets and closets galore. There is, however, a thermometer app on my phone and I walked around using it everywhere. I have watched many reconstitution videos but thank you @meowTime for the YouTube Denver recovery suggestion, because I found it and watched and downloaded it and that's what I'll go with!

Mmmm yeah, maybe a touch of OCD there. Tin foil won't serve any purpose except to make it look like food.

I was referring more to obsessing over minute details. Research is research, but going down rabbit holes that should just be ignored... Like 2 weeks of asking 50 people about dripping bac water down the vial when the first 30 people told me it's not necessary, but I'm still looking for that 1 person who says it is. And then 3 months later still doing it, thinking about it, and talking about it.

I'm a chef and I always zip baggies closed 90% of the way, suck the air out, and close it. Fridge, freezer, food, q-tips... Suck the air out. I'm not wasting money on a cryovac machine and stupid expensive bag rolls when that method works just fine, lol. I have OCD, but I'm also practical and frugal.

I'm not convinced that the mild temp swing in a fridge freezer can cause issues, but some say it does. You could get a small thermos, put the vials in there and keep that in your fridge freezer... That's if you have more than 2-3 years worth. If you just have a years worth, a baggie in the closet would be fine..freezer is not mandatory. 2-3 years at room temp... 68-77°f.

You can also buy various size peptide cases for more (physical damage) protection.

10ct Mini Vial Storage Box (3ml) | Kcbycarrico

"Mini" size holds 10 3ml size vials. Typically used for Tirzepatide, Semaglutide, AOD, BPC, TB500, etc. Perfect for the small storage places in your refrigerator or freezer. Insert color is holographic black unless otherwise requested. Product Dimensions: 3.25" (w) x 5.1" (l) x 2" (h)

www.kcbycarrico.com

I have a 49ct case for the freezer and a 2ct case for the fridge.

You DEFINITELY need to be storing reconstituted peptides in the fridge - no exceptions!

My cases...

Before you ask, the initials are my 2 RS's - both on sema. But we are now sharing out of 1 vial to use it up faster. I intend to research more peptides in the future, so I might get a 6ct case for the fridge.... And another 49ct for the freezer.

I can't let @dionysos "out hoard" me!

 

[MingHenry]

Mmmm yeah, maybe a touch of OCD there. Tin foil won't serve any purpose except to make it look like food.

I was referring more to obsessing over minute details. Research is research, but going down rabbit holes that should just be ignored... Like 2 weeks of asking 50 people about dripping bac water down the vial when the first 30 people told me it's not necessary, but I'm still looking for that 1 person who says it is. And then 3 months later still doing it, thinking about it, and talking about it.

I'm a chef and I always zip baggies closed 90% of the way, suck the air out, and close it. Fridge, freezer, food, q-tips... Suck the air out. I'm not wasting money on a cryovac machine and stupid expensive bag rolls when that method works just fine, lol. I have OCD, but I'm also practical and frugal.

I'm not convinced that the mild temp swing in a fridge freezer can cause issues, but some say it does. You could get a small thermos, put the vials in there and keep that in your fridge freezer... That's if you have more than 2-3 years worth. If you just have a years worth, a baggie in the closet would be fine..freezer is not mandatory. 2-3 years at room temp... 68-77°f.

You can also buy various size peptide cases for more (physical damage) protection.

10ct Mini Vial Storage Box (3ml) | Kcbycarrico

"Mini" size holds 10 3ml size vials. Typically used for Tirzepatide, Semaglutide, AOD, BPC, TB500, etc. Perfect for the small storage places in your refrigerator or freezer. Insert color is holographic black unless otherwise requested. Product Dimensions: 3.25" (w) x 5.1" (l) x 2" (h)

www.kcbycarrico.com

I have a 49ct case for the freezer and a 2ct case for the fridge.

You DEFINITELY need to be storing reconstituted peptides in the fridge - no exceptions!

My cases...

View attachment 1322 View attachment 1323

Before you ask, the initials are my 2 RS's - both on sema. But we are now sharing out of 1 vial to use it up faster. I intend to research more peptides in the future, so I might get a 6ct case for the fridge.... And another 49ct for the freezer.

I can't let @dionysos "out hoard" me!

I know those cases, bought one but returned it because the compound vials are larger. Are those cases for 3ml vials? The same size as the Amo vials? Beautiful and so organized! I love that! Yes my compounded vials are in the fridge of course and my new amo vials are in the freezer. I just haven't decided whether I should put them in thermoses? And yes, I have researched a ton about how to reconstitue, etc but you win!!

 

[Broken Chef]

I think in the interest of our mental health we just have to make do with what we have! I'd love to have that side by side fridge/freezer but that would necessitate a total kitchen renovation! And a medical freezer would be great but then I'd probably lose my pantry! Get that thermometer out and look forward to hearing where your cool spot is!

You can get small freezers the size of a mini fridge. I buy in bulk and food stores better/longer in a manual defrost. I have a 5cuft chest freezer in the garage because my 7cuft upright is full. I actually bought the chest freezer to store nicotine concentrate. I vape and make my own juice. There's been some issues and restrictions on nicotine, so I bought a gallon of it.. will last me about 15 years, lol

I have a garden and I go to upick farms in the spring. I have strawberries, peaches, blueberries, corn, peppers, onions, mushrooms, garlic, herbs and I buy bulk meat, cut it up, wrap and freeze. It's much cheaper that way and there's nothing like local/home grown produce. I do canning too.. pickles, banana peppers, tomatoes, marinara, salsa, peaches, green beans...

If we had a bad hurricane, I could feed the neighborhood for a week. 2 generators, 3 propane tanks, solar panels. My late dad was a bit of a prepper, so there's enough rice, beans, etc to feed a platoon for a week.