Endotoxins…

[wileyhorse]

I’m curious… certainly everyone is aware of the endotoxin fiasco involving T30 and a Chinese vendor. But one thing I have not seen mentioned- did anyone of us get sick from using the product? Or was it caught before it could cause damage?

 

[dgoldrich]

I used the same batch and felt fine.

 

[CNCCurrency]

I’m curious… certainly everyone is aware of the endotoxin fiasco involving T30 and a Chinese vendor. But one thing I have not seen mentioned- did anyone of us get sick from using the product? Or was it caught before it could cause damage?

Not anyone I can recall, it was not caught right away.

 

[wileyhorse]

So, another question… what inspired the original test for endos to begin with? Since it’s not regularly tested on the COAs

 

[Dos-Dox]

But one thing I have not seen mentioned- did anyone of us get sick from using the product?

Yes, at least one member on this forum got sick from it. See the thread trail here:

[archived internal link]

 

[MG9550]

So, another question… what inspired the original test for endos to begin with? Since it’s not regularly tested on the COAs

I think it was part of a group buy testing but the results were so significant that they decided to share it publicly.

 

[DoctaDave]

From what I understand. At low levels endotoxins cause local inflammation as your antibodies respond to the bits and chunks of dead bacteria. Most tainted peps fall into this category, at high levels you can get full body inflammation or anaphylaxis but that’s at very high level.

It’s not something to ignore but it’s also not a doomsday if you get a little bit. Dose makes the poison.

 

[wileyhorse]

I used the same batch and felt fine.

Thanks for that. I keep hearing people in other forums who are anti- compound or anti - gray make comments about “all these people getting sick from using non-fda approved drugs”, yet i cannot find any evidence whatsoever to support their claims. This most recent endotoxin fiasco made me wonder if anyone HAD gotten sick. So far, I can only find one user comment in a separate thread about somebody having a reaction.

 

[Grogu]

Thanks for that. I keep hearing people in other forums who are anti- compound or anti - gray make comments about “all these people getting sick from using non-fda approved drugs”, yet i cannot find any evidence whatsoever to support their claims. This most recent endotoxin fiasco made me wonder if anyone HAD gotten sick. So far, I can only find one user comment in a separate thread about somebody having a reaction.

I wouldn't rely too highly on one anectdotal account of being fine with this batch, not that I'm discounting that user's experience. I'm sure that they were fine.

From the LS Testing Coordinator:

Some anecdotal reports of rashes and increased heart rate from users. Endotoxins build up in the system so taking more will result in a worse effect.

It is the recommendation of LS Testing that anyone who has this batch purchased at around this time does not use it.

[archived internal link]

I think I also read accounts of similar reactions to this batch on various TG servers.

Part of the issue, why some people might experience reactions while others will not are myriad. Everyone's immune system is unique to them and likely a culumination of past exposures to toxins. So, not everyone is going to have similar reactions when presented with a certain endotoxin load. More problematic, how I understand it, is that this batch was sold by over a long period of time with numerous orange colored vial caps. Some with ridges and some without ridges. Makes me think that some of the kits might have not been from the same production run. And then of course, there is the issue of intra-vial consistency within a production run. When we're talking tens of thousand of vials in a production run and we're only testing a handful, it's tough to draw conclusions on the population as a whole with such small samples.