Chronic Disk Degeneration Stack Recommendations

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JustSomeGuy050

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Hello everyone. I’m learning more and more about peptides and how helpful they can be. I’ve been helping guide my father who has been taking tirz. He’s close to retirement and his body is pretty beat up from a long blue-collar career. He was recently diagnosed with Chronic Disk Degeneration and has had back problems for awhile. I was looking at maybe recommending the Wolverine Stack to him. I’m wanting some input on if this could be helpful and/or what else he might be able to benefit from in terms of back/neck pain? I know he has a lot of neck pain right now and BPC is supposed to be injected near the injury site. Is the arm close enough?
 
Same with my dad, so I would like to know the answer to this too. I have to get him on tesa eventually because I just know his belly is all visceral fat. Then one of the discs in his spine has been degenerative for a long time now from working in a factory for 50 years. Poor fella has been in pain for I don't know how long.
 
Chronic disc degeneration has a strong association with cardiovascular disease. There are virtually no blood vessels directly feeding discs. They get nutrients that essentially “leak” out of nearby small vessels that attach to other parts of the spine. Anything that impairs blood flow in the thoracic artery, plaque from high cholesterol, smoking (the worst), inflammation (from visceral fat, also very bad), and high blood pressure all reduce blood flow, starve the discs, causing them to become much more fragile, rapidly degrading.

Anything you can do to address this blood flow problem will help relieve pain, slow ongoing damage, and possibly even provide some healing. Without a good supply of glucose from blood flow, the degeneration will just keep speeding up. No peptide will help with that process.

So, in order of most to least impact:

-Stop smoking

-Get on a GLP, and Tesamorelin if possible. In a calorie deficit Tesamorelin will concentrate fat loss in the hard to lose, inflammation factory abdominal visceral fat, instead of other less important areas. It has a slight sting for some, like a mosquito bite at worst. Tell him it’s worth saving his back (and probably his life, visceral fat is a killer in men). The GLP will also directly reduce inflammation, lower blood pressure, and weight loss will remove mechanical stress in his back.

-Get LDL-C as low as possible. Below 50 and plaque progression will not only stop, it will reverse to a small, but very useful degree, significantly improving blood flow. A statin, Ezetimibe, and if he qualifies, Repatha will do the job with a near certainty of no side effects in 99%. If he’s “statin phobic” recommend Pitavastatin, the most recently developed statin that’s known as the “gentle statin” with a near 0 rate of side effects in the vast majority. It recently became a cheap generic, previously it was hard to get because it cost $500/mo.

-Another reason to use a statin is that inflammation will massively drop almost immediately. Providing some relief for his back pain and slowing the destructive process degenerating his discs. TLDR, Statins inhibit the source of systemic inflammation by stopping the liver from pumping out inflammatory particles.

If you can hold his hand to do some or all of these things for 1 month, checking on him daily (did you take your pills? Did you inject?), he’ll likely feel enough relief by then he’ll willingly continue on his own.
 
GLiPtest said:
Chronic disc degeneration has a strong association with cardiovascular disease. There are virtually no blood vessels directly feeding discs. They get nutrients that essentially “leak” out of nearby small vessels that attach to other parts of the spine. Anything that impairs blood flow in the thoracic artery, plaque from high cholesterol, smoking (the worst), inflammation (from visceral fat, also very bad), and high blood pressure all reduce blood flow, starve the discs, causing them to become much more fragile, rapidly degrading.

Anything you can do to address this blood flow problem will help relieve pain, slow ongoing damage, and possibly even provide some healing. Without a good supply of glucose from blood flow, the degeneration will just keep speeding up. No peptide will help with that process.

So, in order of most to least impact:

-Stop smoking

-Get on a GLP, and Tesamorelin if possible. In a calorie deficit Tesamorelin will concentrate fat loss in the hard to lose, inflammation factory abdominal visceral fat, instead of other less important areas. It has a slight sting for some, like a mosquito bite at worst. Tell him it’s worth saving his back (and probably his life, visceral fat is a killer in men). The GLP will also directly reduce inflammation, lower blood pressure, and weight loss will remove mechanical stress in his back.

-Get LDL-C as low as possible. Below 50 and plaque progression will not only stop, it will reverse to a small, but very useful degree, significantly improving blood flow. A statin, Ezetimibe, and if he qualifies, Repatha will do the job with a near certainty of no side effects in 99%. If he’s “statin phobic” recommend Pitavastatin, the most recently developed statin that’s known as the “gentle statin” with a near 0 rate of side effects in the vast majority. It recently became a cheap generic, previously it was hard to get because it cost $500/mo.

-Another reason to use a statin is that inflammation will massively drop almost immediately. Providing some relief for his back pain and slowing the destructive process degenerating his discs. TLDR, Statins inhibit the source of systemic inflammation by stopping the liver from pumping out inflammatory particles.

If you can hold his hand to do some or all of these things for 1 month, checking on him daily (did you take your pills? Did you inject?), he’ll likely feel enough relief by then he’ll willingly continue on his own.
Damn. This is….thorough. I truly appreciate you putting the time in to this.

He’s on Tirz now, but would pivoting to Reta help with the visceral fat? Or is Tesa the move? He has never been a smoker so he’s got that going for him. But definitely had high cholesterol and BP for awhile. He’s been on statins for years and has had the cholesterol under control for some time now and is under a doctor’s care for it. His numbers have been coming down. I’ll have to ask what his bloodwork has been. He’s 5’10, 215lbs, down from 240.
 
JustSomeGuy050 said:
Hello everyone. I’m learning more and more about peptides and how helpful they can be. I’ve been helping guide my father who has been taking tirz. He’s close to retirement and his body is pretty beat up from a long blue-collar career. He was recently diagnosed with Chronic Disk Degeneration and has had back problems for awhile. I was looking at maybe recommending the Wolverine Stack to him. I’m wanting some input on if this could be helpful and/or what else he might be able to benefit from in terms of back/neck pain? I know he has a lot of neck pain right now and BPC is supposed to be injected near the injury site. Is the arm close enough?
take this guys advice: GLiPtest

GLiPtest said:
Chronic disc degeneration has a strong association with cardiovascular disease...

Click to expand...

this isnt something you want to fuck around with experimental peptides and relying on unproven treatments.
 
wildweasel said:
take this guys advice: GLiPtest

this isnt something you want to fuck around with experimental peptides and relying on unproven treatments.
Yeah I agree. It’s pretty solid advice.

And we definitely aren’t relying on peps and alternatives. He’s stayed with the traditional medicine route. I’m just trying to help boost where I can.
 
JustSomeGuy050 said:
Damn. This is….thorough. I truly appreciate you putting the time in to this.

He’s on Tirz now, but would pivoting to Reta help with the visceral fat? Or is Tesa the move? He has never been a smoker so he’s got that going for him. But definitely had high cholesterol and BP for awhile. He’s been on statins for years and has had the cholesterol under control for some time now and is under a doctor’s care for it. His numbers have been coming down. I’ll have to ask what his bloodwork has been. He’s 5’10, 215lbs, down from 240.
My pleasure. I speak as someone who suffered severe cervical disc degeneration, and spent a small fortune to “save my own life” from debilitating fusion by seeking out the absolute best specialists in the world, which ultimately led me to NYU Langone undergoing what was then surgery that wasn’t yet approved by the FDA, as a trial subject. I walked out that afternoon and a decade later it’s like I never had a disc problem.

TLDR I became an expert in seeking out the leading edge science, not whacko “alternative” medicine, just the stuff that takes about 15 years to trickle down from the elite doctors and research hospitals to become common practice accessible to the majority.

Discs aren’t “dead” gel fill pads. They’re alive, and maintain themselves, with cells that require glucose to function, and the only source are tiny blood vessels that come close enough to “seep” glucose out of their walls that the discs pull into themselves. The TLDR is by focusing on cardiovascular health(stop plaque progression, lower inflammation esp visceral fat, control BP) every system that relies on healthy blood flow (which is ALL of them) improves. The focus on cardiovascular health only looks at the arteries feeding the heart and brain, but doctors have long noticed the same scans that they use to examine spine degeneration often show a degree of plaque in nearby arteries (they can see calcified plaque) that more often than not mirrors the severity of the condition of discs. Because this process takes many years, or decades, it’s been very difficult to study directly, but there’s enough “smoke” few doubt the connection.

Reta will not clear visceral fat much faster, and if Tirz works for him stick with it. What causes the body to gradually store more fat in the viscera (vs subcutaneous) is the drop in growth hormone. Men experience this drop in GH much more quickly than women, so as early as 25 you see guy’s developing the famed “dad gut”, even if they’re not obese. Tesamorelin raises growth hormone levels in a very natural, safe way, and just like men in their early 20s, excess energy storage will shift into subcutaneous depots where it’s relatively harmless, and out of the abdominal cavity and organs (don’t confuse “soft” fat on the stomach, which is subcutaneous, with visceral fat, which is deep internal, hard fat).

Essentially, as we develop excess visceral fat stores, our bodies can’t supply enough blood to keep it all oxygenated. So the visceral fat tissue goes into hypoxia, ie, starved of oxygen, and starts sending out potent hormonal signals that’s it’s injured and dying. The body thinks it’s under attack by some pathogen, and “lights the house on fire” with systemic inflammation trying to fight off a non existent infection, but ends up just damaging tons of healthy tissue instead, including the blood vessels feeding the discs, making them unable to function properly.
 
GLiPtest said:
Reta will not clear visceral fat much faster, and if Tirz works for him stick with it. What causes the body to gradually store more fat in the viscera (vs subcutaneous) is the drop in growth hormone. Men experience this drop in GH much more quickly than women, so as early as 25 you see guy’s developing the famed “dad gut”, even if they’re not obese. Tesamorelin raises growth hormone levels in a very natural, safe way, and just like men in their early 20s, excess energy storage will shift into subcutaneous depots where it’s relatively harmless, and out of the abdominal cavity and organs (don’t confuse “soft” fat on the stomach, which is subcutaneous, with visceral fat, which is deep internal, hard fat).

Essentially, as we develop excess visceral fat stores, our bodies can’t supply enough blood to keep it all oxygenated. So the visceral fat tissue goes into hypoxia, ie, starved of oxygen, and starts sending out potent hormonal signals that’s it’s injured and dying. The body thinks it’s under attack by some pathogen, and “lights the house on fire” with systemic inflammation trying to fight off a non existent infection, but ends up just damaging tons of healthy tissue instead, including the blood vessels feeding the discs, making them unable to function properly.
That makes sense. My dad has always been a thin guy. He has never gained weight anywhere else except his belly until he retired. When you poke his gut, it's hard. Like there is NO squishy fat. I think I need to get him in tirz, since that seems to be the best for inflammation. Then once he gets some weight lost, I will get him on tesa to make sure he gets rid of the visceral fat. The only health problems he has besides the back issues is mild high blood pressure and high cholesterol and he hasn't smoked in almost 30 years.

Thank you for explaining all of this. ❤️
 
JustSomeGuy050 said:
Hello everyone. I’m learning more and more about peptides and how helpful they can be. I’ve been helping guide my father who has been taking tirz. He’s close to retirement and his body is pretty beat up from a long blue-collar career. He was recently diagnosed with Chronic Disk Degeneration and has had back problems for awhile. I was looking at maybe recommending the Wolverine Stack to him. I’m wanting some input on if this could be helpful and/or what else he might be able to benefit from in terms of back/neck pain? I know he has a lot of neck pain right now and BPC is supposed to be injected near the injury site. Is the arm close enough?
If he is overweight especially then GLP drugs could be very effective, just weight reduction could be very useful in reducing forces and stresses on joints, which could reduce pain, and there is reasonable evidence GLPs reduce arthritis symptoms independently of effects on weight as well. Weight loss might not help with the neck as much as lower back.
 
I'm on Reta now ,been on since last fall I have lost 57lbs. My gut and love handles are putting up a fight. Can I stay on Reta and stack with Tesmamorelin or is that a waste and do one or th other alone. Experience appreciated here thanks.
 
tcpnomad said:
How does Tesamorelin compare to Ipamorelin? Seems like Tesamorelin is FDA approved.
Tesamorelin, aka, Egrifta, has a massive amount of solid human research and proof of efficacy (and confirmed safety for decade+ continuous use by many patients) behind it, under FDA pharma surveillance. It’s still a patented drug ($50k / year), so despite the fact compounding pharmacies sell it, it’s a legal grey area (it’s probably not legal, but the company behind Egrifta hasn’t done much to go after those violating their patents).

Ipamorelin, which isn’t protected by any patents so doesn’t face any legal hurdles and many more clinics prescribe it than Tesa, imo, wouldn’t exist if Tesamorelin wasn’t in this “legal grey area”.

In most people, Tesamorelin will max out growth hormone / IGF-1 to the level where your body’s growth hormone feedback mechanisms make the brakes come on. It’s reasonable to assume (and long term studies seem to bear this out) this is the highest level one can go, the maximum “elevated GH / IGF-1 benefits” without risk of abnormal growth.
 
GLiPtest said:
Chronic disc degeneration has a strong association with cardiovascular disease. There are virtually no blood vessels directly feeding discs. They get nutrients that essentially “leak” out of nearby small vessels that attach to other parts of the spine. Anything that impairs blood flow in the thoracic artery, plaque from high cholesterol, smoking (the worst), inflammation (from visceral fat, also very bad), and high blood pressure all reduce blood flow, starve the discs, causing them to become much more fragile, rapidly degrading.

Anything you can do to address this blood flow problem will help relieve pain, slow ongoing damage, and possibly even provide some healing. Without a good supply of glucose from blood flow, the degeneration will just keep speeding up. No peptide will help with that process.

So, in order of most to least impact:

-Stop smoking

-Get on a GLP, and Tesamorelin if possible. In a calorie deficit Tesamorelin will concentrate fat loss in the hard to lose, inflammation factory abdominal visceral fat, instead of other less important areas. It has a slight sting for some, like a mosquito bite at worst. Tell him it’s worth saving his back (and probably his life, visceral fat is a killer in men). The GLP will also directly reduce inflammation, lower blood pressure, and weight loss will remove mechanical stress in his back.

-Get LDL-C as low as possible. Below 50 and plaque progression will not only stop, it will reverse to a small, but very useful degree, significantly improving blood flow. A statin, Ezetimibe, and if he qualifies, Repatha will do the job with a near certainty of no side effects in 99%. If he’s “statin phobic” recommend Pitavastatin, the most recently developed statin that’s known as the “gentle statin” with a near 0 rate of side effects in the vast majority. It recently became a cheap generic, previously it was hard to get because it cost $500/mo.

-Another reason to use a statin is that inflammation will massively drop almost immediately. Providing some relief for his back pain and slowing the destructive process degenerating his discs. TLDR, Statins inhibit the source of systemic inflammation by stopping the liver from pumping out inflammatory particles.

If you can hold his hand to do some or all of these things for 1 month, checking on him daily (did you take your pills? Did you inject?), he’ll likely feel enough relief by then he’ll willingly continue on his own.
Man I want some Repatha!
 
sheilarae74 said:
Same with my dad, so I would like to know the answer to this too. I have to get him on tesa eventually because I just know his belly is all visceral fat. Then one of the discs in his spine has been degenerative for a long time now from working in a factory for 50 years. Poor fella has been in pain for I don't know how long.
just out of curiosity - do you feel more comfortable w/ tesa over reta (for your dad) b/c tesa has more research behind it?
 
GLiPtest said:
My pleasure. I speak as someone who suffered severe cervical disc degeneration, and spent a small fortune to “save my own life” from debilitating fusion by seeking out the absolute best specialists in the world, which ultimately led me to NYU Langone undergoing what was then surgery that wasn’t yet approved by the FDA, as a trial subject. I walked out that afternoon and a decade later it’s like I never had a disc problem.

TLDR I became an expert in seeking out the leading edge science, not whacko “alternative” medicine, just the stuff that takes about 15 years to trickle down from the elite doctors and research hospitals to become common practice accessible to the majority.

Discs aren’t “dead” gel fill pads. They’re alive, and maintain themselves, with cells that require glucose to function, and the only source are tiny blood vessels that come close enough to “seep” glucose out of their walls that the discs pull into themselves. The TLDR is by focusing on cardiovascular health(stop plaque progression, lower inflammation esp visceral fat, control BP) every system that relies on healthy blood flow (which is ALL of them) improves. The focus on cardiovascular health only looks at the arteries feeding the heart and brain, but doctors have long noticed the same scans that they use to examine spine degeneration often show a degree of plaque in nearby arteries (they can see calcified plaque) that more often than not mirrors the severity of the condition of discs. Because this process takes many years, or decades, it’s been very difficult to study directly, but there’s enough “smoke” few doubt the connection.

Reta will not clear visceral fat much faster, and if Tirz works for him stick with it. What causes the body to gradually store more fat in the viscera (vs subcutaneous) is the drop in growth hormone. Men experience this drop in GH much more quickly than women, so as early as 25 you see guy’s developing the famed “dad gut”, even if they’re not obese. Tesamorelin raises growth hormone levels in a very natural, safe way, and just like men in their early 20s, excess energy storage will shift into subcutaneous depots where it’s relatively harmless, and out of the abdominal cavity and organs (don’t confuse “soft” fat on the stomach, which is subcutaneous, with visceral fat, which is deep internal, hard fat).

Essentially, as we develop excess visceral fat stores, our bodies can’t supply enough blood to keep it all oxygenated. So the visceral fat tissue goes into hypoxia, ie, starved of oxygen, and starts sending out potent hormonal signals that’s it’s injured and dying. The body thinks it’s under attack by some pathogen, and “lights the house on fire” with systemic inflammation trying to fight off a non existent infection, but ends up just damaging tons of healthy tissue instead, including the blood vessels feeding the discs, making them unable to function properly.
love all of this - so helpful 💪
 
JustSomeGuy050 said:
Hello everyone. I’m learning more and more about peptides and how helpful they can be. I’ve been helping guide my father who has been taking tirz. He’s close to retirement and his body is pretty beat up from a long blue-collar career. He was recently diagnosed with Chronic Disk Degeneration and has had back problems for awhile. I was looking at maybe recommending the Wolverine Stack to him. I’m wanting some input on if this could be helpful and/or what else he might be able to benefit from in terms of back/neck pain? I know he has a lot of neck pain right now and BPC is supposed to be injected near the injury site. Is the arm close enough?
PPS Injectable Pentosan Polysulfate Sodium, not the pill version. This one is an outlier of sorts, It is a very old Bladder medication, that is being repurposed to fight Arthritis. It is currently, in stage III trials in the US, Australia, and a couple other countries and goes by Zilosul. Because it is an older FDA approved medication, it's available through a compound pharmacy. I get it prescribed from my Longevity Dr. I can't take Nsaids and I have severe Arthritis, which is why I looked for something else to help. It can take a while to work, but it's enough and the longer I stay on it the better it gets over time.

I can't tell you where to get it, but it is available if you google enough. I have severe Arthritis, so I do a weekly dose. It's meant to be done over a 6 weeks course once a year. I spent $1500 on it last year, which I don't think is crazy, but you can spend alot more on it. Horses have had this stuff for years and my dog is on a version of it through the vet. I've been on another forum and there is the Grey market way to get it, but that's a little out of my comfort zone at this point and time.
 
Midwestmouse said:
just out of curiosity - do you feel more comfortable w/ tesa over reta (for your dad) b/c tesa has more research behind it?
I feel comfortable with both but tirz is known for better anti-inflammatory action than reta and the appetite control is also better. I am on reta myself so I know he will do better on tirz.
 
sheilarae74 said:
I feel comfortable with both but tirz is known for better anti-inflammatory action than reta and the appetite control is also better. I am on reta myself so I know he will do better on tirz.
sweet - thx for the reply
 
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