Beating the Dead Horse

[Main75]

One more time at figure RETA effects stalled.

Age 50 , 6'2" current 282lbs was 314 in start August started RETA OCT 4 @ 308

Background : all the stuff (rugby , wrestling .....generally strong land based sports ...injuries mellowed activity but not sedentary)

My body is fast and fit at 235 to 255 range

RETA was amazing OCT (started .5mg ) through mid December ( 5MG ) with relative little effort getting to where i am now 282. I have since generally flatlined progress at 12MG currently .

DIET typical : 6 eggs to start day with a couple coffees (coconut sweetener) maybe 700 calories , lunch protien shake (2 scoops 60 gram protein ) 240 calories , some beef jerky 200 calories and a meat based dinner call it 1000 cal. So approx 2200 calories low carb'ish.

Blood work done 2 twice both show three "odd" things low estidial, low cortisol, low dhea, low b12. started supplementing extra b12, adrenal cortex , dhea 3 months ago. everything else looks solid

What changed?

-new RETA supplier and two week pause just about christmas ...gained 9 lbs (well earned )

-started ipa and TESSA

-titrated reta from 5mg pre christmas to 12 mg current

Basically flatlined progress since JAN 1 maybe 286 down to 279 and bumping around 280

Something has to change because i was absolutely amazed with progress and it seems an

E brake has been pulled on progress .

General thoughts...

- yes one can always workout more

- yes one can alway lower calories

Kinda seems like something else is happening though, that i am not equating for... maybe just slow body comp conversion that is not showing on the scales .... a bit but not as noticeable as i would have assumed after this about of time.

Looking for some insight that i have overlooked

 

[cygnus]

You're consuming too many calories; that's the main thing. It's not really a fat burner in the sense some think of it...yes greater fax oxidation and whatnot, but at 12mg do you find your hunger is still pronounced? If so, you can add some cagrilintide. Before that though, try and week of just cutting your calories down to 1800 or so and give it a shot.

 

[FilterOrDeath]

Was the Reta from the new supplier properly tested? Just to rule that part out easily. And I agree with Cygnus about lowering your calorie count as well.

 

[Main75]

yep some hunger but not overwhelming.

 

[woundcarping]

How much water are you retaining from the Tessa?

How much exercise? Are you actually tracking your calorie intake? Overall it’s just math. Two pounds of fat loss a week means a ~1k calorie deficit per day.

I was 282lb on 12-12-25. 2200 is my soft daily limit for calories. Usually I’m well below so I don’t care the odd time I consume more. My average recorded is ~1700cal/day, but I expect considerable error, especially when eating out. I average around 800 calories of activity per day, but expect error in that. My daily goal is 500 calories of exercise, usually treadmill since that’s easy to calculate the calorie burn.

ETA: I started TRT in January. 3 weeks later I gained 3lb literally overnight, it took a week to get back to that low, I expect I'm still carrying 2-3lb of water which I'll drop next month in theory.

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[Airborne Daddy]

I dont really think its just the calories. For someone 240 maybe, but 280. Are you eating dinner late like 7 or 8? Maybe try eating earlier and stay hydrated. I add 1mg sema to my 10mg reta every 6 days but im guessing thats just suppression. I switch between reta and tirz every 6 months...

 

[Sasquatch]

I'm 60 @ 6'2" started at 330, down to 270. Had at least a 100 day stall at 285 or some shit. Frustrating. It sux. Some say to fast, but I get tremors if I do. Or they get worse. My solution was to eat less and titrate up. If I ate more than one egg. I'd barf. More than a 1/4 lbs patty, I'd barf. Yesterday, I had fish for lunch and fish for supper, I was in agony. I can't get my wife to dial it down. Oh. I don't exercise, I do chores.

 

[Main75]

I dont really think its just the calories. For someone 240 maybe, but 280. Are you eating dinner late like 7 or 8? Maybe try eating earlier and stay hydrated. I add 1mg sema to my 10mg reta every 6 days but im guessing thats just suppression. I switch between reta and tirz every 6 months...

that was kinda my thought too... i try an eat 430 to 6 , definitely have that on my mind because tessa fasted at night.

really curious about switching and benefit of triz over reta and these other add ons sema and cagri as i have not tried that all.

trying to loose body fat and get to 240 -250 .... seems like the goal

 

[Not_Your_Dad]

Insulin resistance in response to IGF-1 levels is a U-shaped curve. Too much or too little trips into IR and will stall or even reverse weight loss. I sincerely recommend anyone who is interested in GH secretagogues learn about the IGF-1/GH axis.

My advice would be to stop the Tesa and Ipa, let it wash out for a month, get IGF-1 tested for baseline, reintroduce the secretagogues, and check IGF-1 again.

Also, is your Tesa/Ipa a blend? Ipa fully saturates out around 150-200 mcg and every blend I've found has way more Ipa then I want.

 

[Main75]

I'm 60 @ 6'2" started at 330, down to 270. Had at least a 100 day stall at 285 or some shit. Frustrating. It sux. Some say to fast, but I get tremors if I do. Or they get worse. My solution was to eat less and titrate up. If I ate more than one egg. I'd barf. More than a 1/4 lbs patty, I'd barf. Yesterday, I had fish for lunch and fish for supper, I was in agony. I can't get my wife to dial it down. Oh. I don't exercise, I do chores.

congrats on the progress ... i may try a 5 day fast to shake things up

 

[Main75]

Insulin resistance in response to IGF-1 levels is a U-shaped curve. Too much or too little trips into IR and will stall or even reverse weight loss. I sincerely recommend anyone who is interested in GH secretagogues learn about the IGF-1/GH axis.

My advice would be to stop the Tesa and Ipa, let it wash out for a month, get IGF-1 tested for baseline, reintroduce the secretagogues, and check IGF-1 again.

Also, is your Tesa/Ipa a blend? Ipa fully saturates out around 150-200 mcg and every blend I've found has way more Ipa then I want.

This might be music my ears... really seems like some sort of outside mechanism thats blocking me from loosing that i dont understands at the moment... i was on such a good trajectory and not MUCH changed on the food intake front.

ill have to read up on this mechanism

 

[Main75]

This might be music my ears... really seems like some sort of outside mechanism thats blocking me from loosing that i dont understands at the moment... i was on such a good trajectory and not MUCH changed on the food intake front.

ill have to read up on this mechanism

This might be music my ears... really seems like some sort of outside mechanism thats blocking me from loosing that i dont understands at the moment... i was on such a good trajectory and not MUCH changed on the food intake front.

ill have to read up on this mechanism

Also not a blend on Tessa ipa

Tessa 2mg fasted at night on a 5 on 2 off

IPA 250 mcg morn/night 5/2

Just about to start week 8 but stopping for month to check this igf-1 baseline out

Thanks hopefully this is it

 

[BNLFL]

No way I could eat 6 eggs being on Reta. Maybe a hard boiled egg, and 2 link sausages. We split that ever other day, and sometimes more with a protein shake we make. 1 scope protein powder (24G protein), 1 scope oat bran and a scope of collagen. Lunch is maybe a burger patty and steamed broccoli, we split that. Once a week we split 10 chicken wings. Dinner is normally some type of meat, pork, chicken, beef and fish once a week. We've gone from eating at 6:30 to 5-5:30. It's working for us and think it makes a difference. I wasn't killer heavy, but the most I've ever weighed at 215. Down to 199 with a 175 goal. Currently on 4mg, and will pin the third one in the morning. Been on Reta for 6 weeks.

 

[Main75]

No way I could eat 6 eggs being on Reta. Maybe a hard boiled egg, and 2 link sausages. We split that other day, and sometimes more with a protein shake we make. 1 scope protein powder (24G protein), 1 scope oat bran and a scope of collagen. Lunch is maybe a burger patty and steamed broccoli, we split that. Once a week we split 10 chicken wings. Dinner is normally some type of meat, pork, chicken, beef and fish once a week. We've gone from eating at 6:30 to 5-5:30. It's working for us and think it makes a difference. I wasn't killer heavy, but the most I've ever weighed at 215. Down to 199 with a 175 goal. Currently on 4mg, and will pin the third one in the morning. Been on Reta for 6 weeks.

Yep seems the don’t think about food much left just before Christmas at around 5mg …I’ve increased to the max dose 12mg but never have had the food noise gone as much as it once was

 

[Wallydog]

You're consuming too many calories; that's the main thing. It's not really a fat burner in the sense some think of it...yes greater fax oxidation and whatnot, but at 12mg do you find your hunger is still pronounced? If so, you can add some cagrilintide. Before that though, try and week of just cutting your calories down to 1800 or so and give it a shot.

I don't know. 2000kcals for a 280# male isn't really reaching maintenance levels even for a sedentary one --- 2600 to 3000/d.

 

[BNLFL]

Yep seems the don’t think about food much left just before Christmas at around 5mg …I’ve increased to the max dose 12mg but never have had the food noise gone as much as it once was

I have no food noise, which I find odd. It would get to be around 7Pm and I was searching for something sweet and always fell back on the ice cream in the freezer. In fact, still 2 half gallons of Blue Bunny in there. Don't even mention Halloween with all the candy in the house. My wife would hide it, I'd find it.

 

[woundcarping]

I don't know. 2000kcals for a 280# male isn't really reaching maintenance levels even for a sedentary one --- 2600 to 3000/d.

Having been that size, 2600cal I could agree with. Without quantifying calories in and out, it’s all relatively asinine to speculate.

It’s not just that simple, but it’s also not rocket science with ineffable variables.

DEXA scans are good for quantifying composition baseline and changes.

 

[Peptidesearch]

What are your testosterone, thyroid, fasting insulin and A1C levels like? If you have low E2 your Test. level should technically be low as well, due to aromatization increasing with increased body fat.

Have you checked your LDL and Lp(a) yet? I would stay away from adding things like Tesa/IP until you figure this out, adding more variables only makes things more complex.

Switching Reta vendors is suspect as well, how do you plan to resolve this? Beef jerky is full of sodium which will cause water retention. How many steps are you getting in a day?

I feel you might be underestimating your calorie intake. Maybe try running another calorie counter to compare to current one to see if there's a discrepancy?

 

[FlowerFairy]

I have no food noise, which I find odd. It would get to be around 7Pm and I was searching for something sweet and always fell back on the ice cream in the freezer. In fact, still 2 half gallons of Blue Bunny in there. Don't even mention Halloween with all the candy in the house. My wife would hide it, I'd find it.

I’m glad to hear I’m not the only one with no hunger on Reta. The craving sweets at night is still there but instead of ice cream I get a piece of fruit (apple or pear) or a few hard candies (found some German fruit flavored ones that are tiny- like smaller than half a dime across).

As far as the OP’s situation, I went through something similar, but I stalled after losing around 80 lbs. I stayed stalled for a good while but finally started losing again. Currently I’m stacking Reta 4mg and Tirz 4 mg and I’m a few pounds from my first goal (I’m thinking of setting a new goal- honestly didn’t think I’d reach the first one!).

 

[BNLFL]

Beef jerky is full of sodium which will cause water retention.

Do you want a chuckle. I went to my GP two weeks ago for a follow up on my blood work tests. Everything was spot on, except my sodium was just a needle on the low side. I said OK, what do I do, he said use a little salt, but not to much to raise my BP.