40,000 Patient Records Reflect >50% Maintained or Increased Weight Loss After 24 Months Off GLP’s

[CallieKat]

This doesn’t prove your point at all. This is cherry picked data that doesn’t control for anything.

We have multiple properly conducted studies that actually show that you will more than likely regain after you stop.

No one is being gaslit at all into thinking if you stop GLPs you will regain. We all know that the majority will regain and that is truth.

You are gaslighting folks into thinking that quitting is just going to work out for a good portion of people.

I didn’t want to go there and say it but it needs to be said. Sorry if I have upset anyone here. I will go back into my lurky corner.

I’m done with this conversation. I thought there was a real point here but there isn’t.

 

[50ShadesGreyMarket]

Keep in mind, studies funded by corporations that stand to lose lifelong customers report different outcomes than third party data. Look at participant numbers, as well: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/terminal/glp-meta-analysis-refutes-pharma-claims-threatens-investors

 

[50ShadesGreyMarket]

This doesn’t prove your point at all. This is cherry picked data that doesn’t control for anything.

We have multiple properly conducted studies that actually show that you will more than likely regain after you stop.

No one is being gaslit at all into thinking if you stop GLPs you will regain. We all know that the majority will regain and that is truth.

You are gaslighting folks into thinking that quitting is just going to work out for a good portion of people.

I didn’t want to go there and say it but it needs to be said. Sorry if I have upset anyone here. I will go back into my lurky corner.

I’m done with this conversation. I thought there was a real point here but there isn’t.

Nobody’s upset.

 

[YoYoFat]

The problem with cognitive bias is that no matter how much data exists there will always be people who insist the reported outcome must be fabricated. It’s not possible to do a scientific research study that convinces everyone. We still have folks who insist the Earth is flat.

C’mon. You’re literally in a grey community arguing that it couldn’t possibly be grey and compound contributing to these results? I mean, this report conflicts with the actual SURMOUNT clinical study, and as you’ve seen, there are many, many people not on prescribed name brand Tirzepatide, and that isn’t taken into consideration here.

“Of all the people who filled their gas tank at a particular Shell station, 50% never had to refill again and kept driving for years!” as if there aren’t other reasons why they might have been able to keep driving other than that particular gas station…

 

[YoYoFat]

There’s more than 10 studies I’ve read so far that all have roughly the same outcomes.

Post them.

 

[YoYoFat]

There's a pretty good argument that this data is highly biased and not representative of real weight regain after discontinuation.

To collect this data, they queried Cosmos (Epic’s aggregated dataset) for patients with a continuous GLP-1 order >90 days who lost >5 lb, and who had no GLP-1 order in the year after the estimated end of treatment. That's it. It doesn't account for people switching to compounding, or even switching to a different healthcare provider who doesn't use Epic's system. To count as "discontinued" patients could have very well switched doctors, stopped refilling but using old supply, or even have paid in cash for their medication (which means it won't show up in Epic's EHR). Additionally this only accounts for people who later came back and got their weight checked a year later, but that's another story.

Let me reiterate, If a patient switches to:

A hospital system running Cerner, Athena, NextGen, eClinicalWorks, etc. (Anything except Cosmos)

A clinic that does not participate in Cosmos

A telehealth platform that is not integrated with their old Epic chart

Most importantly, compounding (millions of people switched over during shortage)

Then this study now considers them "stopped"

You can see how the results might potentially be biased.

Also, doesn’t account for someone switching from one med to another. For example, they appear to have looked at people who stop Sema, but doesn’t account for a potential switch to Tirz, or a change to LDN or Qsymia or something else.

 

[MsGizmo]

According to the records of 40,000 patients at Epic, more than 50% of them were able to keep off the weight or continue to lose weight in the 2 years after discontinuation of GLP-1’s. Roughly 20% gained the weight back. This is based on medical records, not self-reported. Regardless of how many studies or reports come out, I still hear people parrot the narrative of Big Pharma that “once you pop, you can’t stop”. I get this may be the case for opioids, but GLP-1’s seem to affect different people differently.

View attachment 9969

Two Years After Stopping GLP-1s, Most Patients Sustain at Least Some Weight Loss

Facilitating rapid sharing of new medical knowledge

www.epicresearch.org

I'm not sure how much we can trust this report. How many of us in the grey market have reported it to our doctors? Officially my doctor thinks I am taking 0.5mg doses of retail Wegovy and not 1.5mg doses of grey market sema. They have no idea that I'm taking 3mg of reta a week as well.

 

[geoguy78]

There's so much variation in how people's bodies and minds work, a cookie cutter mentality about discontinuing GLPs just isn't going to work. So many factors at play in why people gained weight in the first place, that's going to affect the ability to keep it off. Also a lot we don't understand, like "set points" and fat cell memory. Can we retrain our bodies? I see nothing wrong with trying to keep the weight off without GLPs and also nothing wrong with staying on for good. And if you stop and start stacking on the pounds, nothing wrong with starting back up again.

 

[50ShadesGreyMarket]

One of the great things about access to inexpensive GLP-1 drugs is you can experiment with stopping and starting and increasing and decreasing doses as needed. Based on the research, I think most people are going to need to stay on the dose they used to lose the weight, to keep it off, but trying reduced doses or stopping it for maintenance is a easy harmless experiment so long as you don't let weight regain get away from you before restarting it if necessary.

We are on the same page. A huge issue we have with severely obese people, aside from the current price or what’s available, is the fact that GLP’s are vilified in the media and among the cult followers. There’s a noticeable number of young fat influencers who have suffered from disabilities caused or exacerbated by morbid obesity. When we tell them they will never ever ever be able to lose weight and keep it off unless they’re willing to pin every day for the rest of their lives, it results in fewer seeking treatment.

Yes, most people regain weight. Most people eat like raccoons in a dumpster and don’t get adequate exercise, too. I think being willing to have a conversation about how lifestyle changes can help keep someone in a healthier weight range is better than accepting there’s no hope.

 

[50ShadesGreyMarket]

There's so much variation in how people's bodies and minds work, a cookie cutter mentality about discontinuing GLPs just isn't going to work. So many factors at play in why people gained weight in the first place, that's going to affect the ability to keep it off. Also a lot we don't understand, like "set points" and fat cell memory. Can we retrain our bodies? I see nothing wrong with trying to keep the weight off without GLPs and also nothing wrong with staying on for good. And if you stop and start stacking on the pounds, nothing wrong with starting back up again.

I didn’t see anybody claim people should just stop taking GLP’s. I have seen a lot of folks on this forum insist if you titrate down or stop then they will lose effectiveness.

 

[geoguy78]

I didn’t see anybody claim people should just stop taking GLP’s. I have seen a lot of folks on this forum insist if you titrate down or stop then they will lose effectiveness.

I see people claim both. Mostly the fat shamers saying you need to stop, and the people who have been fat shamed claiming they will lose effectiveness/you'll regain everything if you go down/stop. It's a socially/emotionally loaded topic that makes having real discussions about it difficult, unfortunately.

 

[50ShadesGreyMarket]

I see people claim both. Mostly the fat shamers saying you need to stop, and the people who have been fat shamed claiming they will lose effectiveness/you'll regain everything if you go down/stop. It's a socially/emotionally loaded topic that makes having real discussions about it difficult, unfortunately.

I was hoping there were enough rational people on this forum to have actual discussions without pearl clutching and false assumptions. As much as I see people trash talk bodybuilders for being “meat heads”, they tend to be the most open to new research and experimentation, even those who have struggled with obesity in the past.

And even more annoying is all the DM’s I get flooded with after posting anything that doesn’t fall in line with the current dogma. Apparently I’m not the only one to drop dosage or experiment, I’m just one of the few who doesn’t care what others think.

 

[50ShadesGreyMarket]

That is totally true, and some probiotics are tricky to acquire. There is one you only get when you're born. Antibiotics kill them.

I have had spinal meningitis twice in my life and after transphenoidal surgery in 2022, I am sure that the IV antibiotics wiped out a good portion. I eat very well, take an adequate amount of supplements, work out rigorously a few times a week but I know it’s not enough to reverse the effects. I am near Rice University where they pioneered fecal matter transplants but I didn’t qualify for any of the trials. If I didn’t actually work in the industry, I probably wouldn’t be doing as well as I am. :/

 

[desinr-gal]

I have had spinal meningitis twice in my life and after transphenoidal surgery in 2022, I am sure that the IV antibiotics wiped out a good portion. I eat very well, take an adequate amount of supplements, work out rigorously a few times a week but I know it’s not enough to reverse the effects. I am near Rice University where they pioneered fecal matter transplants but I didn’t qualify for any of the trials. If I didn’t actually work in the industry, I probably wouldn’t be doing as well as I am. :/

I was wondering..since you seem to have a lot of treatments covered without hassle. No way anyone with my insurance provider would get glps prescribed for lack of a certain probiotic..Severely obese people here have a hard time. You are very lucky in that sense. But you seem to have had a rough road health wise, and I am very sorry you have suffered. Gut bugs are so important we now know.. But it's true that replacing them isnt as easy as you'd think.

 

[50ShadesGreyMarket]

I was wondering..since you seem to have a lot of treatments covered without hassle. No way anyone with my insurance provider would get glps prescribed for lack of a certain probiotic..Severely obese people here have a hard time. You are very lucky in that sense. But you seem to have had a rough road health wise, and I am very sorry you have suffered. Gut bugs are so important we now know.. But it's true that replacing them isnt as easy as you'd think.

I wouldn’t say “lucky” so much as I chose to move my career in a direction that would support my health. I moved from Los Angeles to Houston to be near the biggest medical center specifically so that I could have access to some of the top research clinics.

 

[AndyPanda]

According to the records of 40,000 patients at Epic, more than 50% of them were able to keep off the weight or continue to lose weight in the 2 years after discontinuation of GLP-1’s. Roughly 20% gained the weight back. This is based on medical records, not self-reported. Regardless of how many studies or reports come out, I still hear people parrot the narrative of Big Pharma that “once you pop, you can’t stop”. I get this may be the case for opioids, but GLP-1’s seem to affect different people differently.

View attachment 9969

Two Years After Stopping GLP-1s, Most Patients Sustain at Least Some Weight Loss

Facilitating rapid sharing of new medical knowledge

www.epicresearch.org

In other news, 49% gain all their weight and more back.

 

[desinr-gal]

This paper shows great promise with Akkermancia.. Supplements do seem to work.

High fat diet kills it though. All kinds of positive news in here.

Strategies to promote abundance of Akkermansia muciniphila, an emerging probiotics in the gut, evidence from dietary intervention studies - PMC

Akkermansia muciniphila is a mucin-degrading bacterium commonly found in human gut. A. muciniphila has been inversely associated with obesity, diabetes, inflammation, and metabolic disorders. Due to its highly promising probiotic activities against ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[50ShadesGreyMarket]

This paper shows great promise with Akkermancia.. Supplements do seem to work.

High fat diet kills it though. All kinds of positive news in here.

Strategies to promote abundance of Akkermansia muciniphila, an emerging probiotics in the gut, evidence from dietary intervention studies - PMC

Akkermansia muciniphila is a mucin-degrading bacterium commonly found in human gut. A. muciniphila has been inversely associated with obesity, diabetes, inflammation, and metabolic disorders. Due to its highly promising probiotic activities against ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Feel free to send as many links as you want. I found out today my doctor is in South America for another week. I’ll call back next week and see if one of the other doctors can give me a straight answer, at the latest I’ll know the first week of December.

 

[noggin]

Also, doesn’t account for someone switching from one med to another. For example, they appear to have looked at people who stop Sema, but doesn’t account for a potential switch to Tirz, or a change to LDN or Qsymia or something else.

As long as the patient's new medication collection is recorded in Epic's EHR then it will record the medication switch and count them as continuing to take a GLP-1. But this assumes the patient's prescriber and pharmacy all continue to use Epic's EHR. Little pedantic but thought I'd clarify

 

[mlke6]

Apparently I’m not the only one to drop dosage or experiment, I’m just one of the few who doesn’t care what others think.

I see people in the community all the time talking about hitting goal weight and slowly dropping dosage until they are off. Some do lower doses not even weekly anymore. Some are like me and the insane cravings like my body wants to jump back where it always goes after I lose weight when I lower my goal weight dosage. I really haven't seen any sector of this community be all or nothing as far as "YOU MUST STAY ON BECAUSE I HAVE TO" or "You have to get off as soon as you can because its not good long term.

There are some people who claim after stopping for a while needing more mg of the same peptide to be at the weight they were when they stopped. Not all, some.

I've seen people with the belief on both sides, probably because their own personal experience. That whole, this is how my body operates so everyone's is just like mine mentality. Then you see the ones who are open to both because they realize every body, briain, chemistry, reasons why we are fat are all very different and unique to the individual.

It feels like you are more pushing one narrative than being open to multiple and so you might be pushing some buttons on the people on the other. Doesn't really feel like a discussion.

I'm sure I'm reading everything you are posting wrong though. My whole experience causing me to see in the way that I do.

But yeah, I don't see, even in this forum group, just one main side of the stay on or off coin Don't know where you are coming from with that one.