RS一直在服用Tira 7.5mg，距离目标体重只差15磅。总共减重80磅。现在体重停滞了。增加剂量真的能帮助减肥吗？还是只是更好地控制食欲？RS在这个剂量下通常不会感到饥饿，因为他正在进行生酮饮食，热量摄入低于消耗。也在考虑换成Reta。很想看看大家的回复。
逐渐增加剂量有助于减肥吗？
- Thread starter Campdirtybirdz
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两周停滞期。还没买体脂秤。考虑入手一台 Renpho 体脂秤，但评价褒贬不一。RS 最近开始增加举重训练。非常感谢您的建议。 
This is why I get a kick out of the "calories" people. If you're not losing fat then (by definition) you're not running a calorie deficit. I mean how in the world would you ever actually know your calorie status on any particular day if you're not hooked up to fancy equipment in a metabolic ward? Just because a scale spits out some calorie number or a table on the internet says some number doesn't mean that's your number for a particular day/week. This isn't directed at you personally, just that the calories concept is so prevalent that so many people buy into it and then get confused by it "not working."Campdirtybirdz said:
I think what you meant to say is that you haven't increased the amount of food that you're eating VS the amount that you'd previously been losing weight eating and you've hit a stall. So yes, as ambot88 pointed out, the trials all show that higher dosages tend to lead to greater average weight loss. Of course, those are AVERAGES and it's impossible to know for you as an individual how much more weight loss a particular dosage increase will lead to, but data all points to more GLP juice in your veins leading to greater weight loss.
A good analogy for this might be trying to control how fast your car is going on the freeway by how far you push down the gas pedal. If you're going a stable 60 MPH and want to get to 70 MPH you have to push the gas pedal down more. How much? It's hard to know exactly, but it could be a half inch. Of course, that's not to say that every half inch is another 10 MPH. It's to say that once you hit 70 MPH you shouldn't be confused that your car doesn't keep speeding up (without pushing down the pedal further).
Two weeks is not considered a stall. If the plateau lasts 4-6 weeks, it may be time to adjust your calorie intake or exercise routine. Body adaptation is a thing. Good luck!Campdirtybirdz said:2 week stall. No body composition scale yet. Thinking about getting a renpho scale but reviews seem mixed. RS just started adding weight lifting to the mix. Great advice
You might try titrating up to 10. And another strategy that works for me is to stay at your dose of 7.5 but adjust your dosing schedule to every 5 days.
It's just my opinion, but I wouldn't add reta yet. You're doing great! and almost there at this point
It's just my opinion, but I wouldn't add reta yet. You're doing great! and almost there at this point
Question about protein. RS always struggle to get more than 100 gms per day. It always feels like RS is eating too much. Will more protein help with weight lossor just muscle retention?
That's a good question and sadly there isn't a simple answer. If you're limiting your food intake overall (and you've said that you are) then shifting more of that towards protein is often beneficial. In the extreme case (consuming nothing but protein) you do trend towards "rabbit starvation" (look that up if unfamiliar), which in a certain light might not be the worst outcome for someone on GLPs.Campdirtybirdz said:
With traditional diet-initiated weight loss, people are often successful, even on very low protein diets (to the extent that protein isn't getting replaced with high-glycemic/processed carbs) and weight loss will tend to bias more towards fat.
With hormone-initiated weight loss (what you're doing), it's more complicated and we have much less data to go off of. Some earlier GLPs were a disaster for maintaining lean mass during weight loss, but anecdotally it seems like the dual and triple agonist meds aren't as bad in that regard. Personally, I'd lean towards prioritizing protein on hormone-initiated weight loss and weight management, even if that might shift me to an undesired place in terms of "calories."
So to recap our options.
1. Continue on same dose and hope two weeks of stall is an anomaly.
2. Go up to the next dosing amount 10mg.
3. Dose 7.5mg every 5 days.
4. Add 2mg Reta to 7.5mg Tirz.
5. Go straight to Reta.
??Decisions, Decisions??
1. Continue on same dose and hope two weeks of stall is an anomaly.
2. Go up to the next dosing amount 10mg.
3. Dose 7.5mg every 5 days.
4. Add 2mg Reta to 7.5mg Tirz.
5. Go straight to Reta.
??Decisions, Decisions??
I mean if you want a full list of options... LOLCampdirtybirdz said:So to recap our options.
1. Continue on same dose and hope two weeks of stall is an anomaly.
2. Go up to the next dosing amount 10mg.
3. Dose 7.5mg every 5 days.
4. Add 2mg Reta to 7.5mg Tirz.
5. Go straight to Reta.
??Decisions, Decisions??
6: Add survo/maz for "ghetto reta."
7: Adjust diet in some manner.
8: Gastric bypass surgery.
9: Add something else to juice GH.
10: Discontinue treatment and accept weight regain.
11: Join a local boxing gym.
But I suspect most would lean towards 2/3 or 4.
tubby said:
Is maintaining your TZ runway important to you with 15lbs to go? It's a question to answer in your decision making process about next step.
Good luck! You're doing great. 80lb weight loss is amazing!!
Good luck! You're doing great. 80lb weight loss is amazing!!
The most obvious question is do you have side effects that are an issue at your current dose? I would need to know your start weight, age and height and how much weight you have lost over how long to give a better answer, but if there are no side effects then there is no reason not to increase doses. If you have lost 80 lbs, and again it would be easier with more data, then there is probably a strong argument to increase the dose anyway and keep increasing it to 15mg. That degree of excess weight is almost certainly enough to carry severe long term health risks, and higher doses are more effective than lower doses at preventing the long term health problems that come from obesity, and most likely improve your chances of maintaining the weight loss if continued long term. Which will prevent diabetes , high blood pressure, high cholesterol, strokes heart attacks etc etc.
The other question I would ask , is how comfortable are you with your current calorie intake? Are you hungry a lot of the time and having to constantly choose to eat less than you body is telling you to eat? The reason that GLP's work and work long term is they can fix this problem. So if you are still having to eat less than you feel like eating , then another reason to up the dose.
Of course only 2 weeks of no change in weight does not really mean anything, fluid balance fluctuations can be several kilos one way or the other and cause what looks like a stall on the scales very easily. If how much you eat has not changed, and you were previously loosing weight at a reasonable pace it is probably fluid.
If weight loss has been very slowly losing pace over a long time it is much more likely to be a genuine stall, but you are in a great position and luckier than average in that you have already lost a stack of weight and still have room to increase doses, so getting to your target is pretty likely, and you will have had a better than average response. The problem is much more often that weight loss will stop at maximum doses before you get near your target especially when people have more severe obesity.
I do not think switching to reta or not is a big deal, but you are responding very well to tirz, and I assume you do not have lots of side effects, so swapping is going to mess up your diet for a while as you slowly swap over and increase reta doses, and you are more likely to get side effects from reta than tirz, and there is the small chance you are allergic to it, so given it looks like tirz will get you to your target at a bit higher doses, I cannot see any obvious advantage in swapping.
The other question I would ask , is how comfortable are you with your current calorie intake? Are you hungry a lot of the time and having to constantly choose to eat less than you body is telling you to eat? The reason that GLP's work and work long term is they can fix this problem. So if you are still having to eat less than you feel like eating , then another reason to up the dose.
Of course only 2 weeks of no change in weight does not really mean anything, fluid balance fluctuations can be several kilos one way or the other and cause what looks like a stall on the scales very easily. If how much you eat has not changed, and you were previously loosing weight at a reasonable pace it is probably fluid.
If weight loss has been very slowly losing pace over a long time it is much more likely to be a genuine stall, but you are in a great position and luckier than average in that you have already lost a stack of weight and still have room to increase doses, so getting to your target is pretty likely, and you will have had a better than average response. The problem is much more often that weight loss will stop at maximum doses before you get near your target especially when people have more severe obesity.
I do not think switching to reta or not is a big deal, but you are responding very well to tirz, and I assume you do not have lots of side effects, so swapping is going to mess up your diet for a while as you slowly swap over and increase reta doses, and you are more likely to get side effects from reta than tirz, and there is the small chance you are allergic to it, so given it looks like tirz will get you to your target at a bit higher doses, I cannot see any obvious advantage in swapping.
I Really appreciate your detailed response. The effects have been Constipation, dry skin, more recently being cold all the time. Fiber gummies and mag c have been the answer for the constipation. Moisturize everything for the dry skin and I assume being 80 pounds lighter has something to do with being cold all the time. Pretty consistent meals daily which is coffee, core power shake lunch, grilled chicken avocado snack and some protein and veg for dinner. No hunger issues. What's left is that nasty visceral stretched stomach fat which is pushing another more exercise.
All of those side effects could as easily be caused by weight loss or diet changes as by the drug. So that does not help a lot. I did just notice you had already said hunger is not much of an issue. Feeling cold is definitely something that happens partly from lost insulation and partly from reduced metabolic rate from the weight loss.
Even if you are not feeling especially hungry higher doses will most likely result in you eating less calories overall and increase weight loss.
Knowing how old/healthy or young/unhealthy you are would make a big difference to how important full 15mg doses are for long term health issues, the older and less healthy the more important it is in my opinion anyway. No one else on here mentions this so I think it is worthwhile repeating it.
100 grams a day of protein should be more than enough, depending on weight a bit, to reduce muscle loss , I would be surprised if increasing it from there made a big difference. I always found protein to be the most filling food per calorie by a mile compared to anything else so it has that advantage over other food types.
I would still go with increased doses, does not sound like side effects are likely to be an issue going to 10mg. I definitely do not subscribe to the keep doses as low and increase as slowly as possible camp, especially in the context of more severe obesity. If you are trying to lose more than 20 or 25% body weight I cannot see any reason to not go to full doses eventually unless side effects are a problem.
Even if you are not feeling especially hungry higher doses will most likely result in you eating less calories overall and increase weight loss.
Knowing how old/healthy or young/unhealthy you are would make a big difference to how important full 15mg doses are for long term health issues, the older and less healthy the more important it is in my opinion anyway. No one else on here mentions this so I think it is worthwhile repeating it.
100 grams a day of protein should be more than enough, depending on weight a bit, to reduce muscle loss , I would be surprised if increasing it from there made a big difference. I always found protein to be the most filling food per calorie by a mile compared to anything else so it has that advantage over other food types.
I would still go with increased doses, does not sound like side effects are likely to be an issue going to 10mg. I definitely do not subscribe to the keep doses as low and increase as slowly as possible camp, especially in the context of more severe obesity. If you are trying to lose more than 20 or 25% body weight I cannot see any reason to not go to full doses eventually unless side effects are a problem.
It takes longer to lose the last few. Be patient and hang in there. Great job so far!
im still new here but im finding out i apparently am in a different category of people when it comes to mindset and strategies so ill ad my 2 cents and see if i get in trouble.
you said in the first opening post that you do not have issues with hunger at current levels and diet. that is good, generally in a non drug aided diet plan you are going to be some level of hungry and i know everyone here apparently wants to completely avoid that but if you have no issue with it atm why not just cut back a little more to where you do feel a little hunger before titrating up? or conversely you could ad like literally a 10 minute walk a day to get you into a slight deficient, again without upping the dose to keep your potential... runway? ( someone let me know if im using that right) as someone els said intact with the meds.
weight loss is not always linier and a 2 week "stall" is not crazy. your fat cells try to keep the same size for as long as possible by taking in water as they are losing actual fat storage to see if they will get replenished soon and then will dump all the excess water in what alot of fitness people refer to as the "woosh" when all the weight loss basically catches up from them dropping the retained water. if you just keep bumping up the meds while not giving your body the time to figure out it has actually lost the fat you will end up at max dose and have nowhere to go but to add even more compounds.
congrats ont he 80lbs thats huge btw. youve come this far and done an amazing job so far, just give it another couple of weeks and see if your body catches up is my opinion.
you said in the first opening post that you do not have issues with hunger at current levels and diet. that is good, generally in a non drug aided diet plan you are going to be some level of hungry and i know everyone here apparently wants to completely avoid that but if you have no issue with it atm why not just cut back a little more to where you do feel a little hunger before titrating up? or conversely you could ad like literally a 10 minute walk a day to get you into a slight deficient, again without upping the dose to keep your potential... runway? ( someone let me know if im using that right) as someone els said intact with the meds.
weight loss is not always linier and a 2 week "stall" is not crazy. your fat cells try to keep the same size for as long as possible by taking in water as they are losing actual fat storage to see if they will get replenished soon and then will dump all the excess water in what alot of fitness people refer to as the "woosh" when all the weight loss basically catches up from them dropping the retained water. if you just keep bumping up the meds while not giving your body the time to figure out it has actually lost the fat you will end up at max dose and have nowhere to go but to add even more compounds.
congrats ont he 80lbs thats huge btw. youve come this far and done an amazing job so far, just give it another couple of weeks and see if your body catches up is my opinion.
Indeed, it's just more difficult for a 265lb person to loose 15lbs, than a 330lb person, because it's a percentage thing. I lost 63lbs from 330. Still want to loose another 15.
Starting on my 2nd month of 15mg. Somewhere around 10 to 12.5mg/week, I stalled for over 100 days. I stayed on "the study" schedule, but what made the scale start to move again was simply eating less. IMHO the whole protein thing is simply because it's not readily stored. It's a buzz-word. Everyone should be mindful of it, sure. But I'll be dambed if I drink those lead fortified protein drink. I'll eat horsemeat thrice a day before I drink that shit.
Starting on my 2nd month of 15mg. Somewhere around 10 to 12.5mg/week, I stalled for over 100 days. I stayed on "the study" schedule, but what made the scale start to move again was simply eating less. IMHO the whole protein thing is simply because it's not readily stored. It's a buzz-word. Everyone should be mindful of it, sure. But I'll be dambed if I drink those lead fortified protein drink. I'll eat horsemeat thrice a day before I drink that shit.
Super lean meat is the most filling food in existence per calorie in my experience. And stops you from getting hungry for longer as well. I am on about 3g/kg/day without any protein powders or shakes, just low fat dairy and meat. You get a cheat of extra calories is one advantage, it takes about 20% of the calories in protein to digest and metabolise it so you get an extra 20 cal per 100 calories for free, and free calories are nice when trying to lose weight. So if I am eating 800 kcal of protein a day then it only counts for 640 cal in terms of effects on weight. Which is an extra small free snack per day, or slightly more or faster weight loss.
The closer you get to normal weight the harder your body will try to hang onto the fat, reducing energy expenditure to match calorie intake if it can. When I started at 145kg I lost 6 kg a month exactly until I got to about 90kg or so and then slowly over the next 6 months weight loss slowed to a complete stop with absolutely no change in calorie intake the entire time ( about 1600kcal/day ). The energy expenditure drop from weight loss and metabolic adaptation can be a very large effect. From 6kg/mo to zero is a drop of 1500kcal/day over less than a year. and the 1600 a day was what I had to eat to not put weight on , a fair bit less than predicted for age and activity level.
The closer you get to normal weight the harder your body will try to hang onto the fat, reducing energy expenditure to match calorie intake if it can. When I started at 145kg I lost 6 kg a month exactly until I got to about 90kg or so and then slowly over the next 6 months weight loss slowed to a complete stop with absolutely no change in calorie intake the entire time ( about 1600kcal/day ). The energy expenditure drop from weight loss and metabolic adaptation can be a very large effect. From 6kg/mo to zero is a drop of 1500kcal/day over less than a year. and the 1600 a day was what I had to eat to not put weight on , a fair bit less than predicted for age and activity level.
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