我到底在干什么？

[Peptidesearch]

Because the tirz effect seemed to be waning, and TBH, there is a certain outlaw-ish thrill in operating in the grey market.

I Knew it!

 

[krsct]

the vast majority of the peptides sold by Lilly and Novo Nordisk are manufactured in China under contract by these companies.

Are we really sure that this is true? How do we know?

 

[Jellybelly54]

Are we really sure that this is true? How do we know?

Yes we are. Just a simple Google search will give you several companies in CN that manufacture for the two big GLP companies. Many of the CN companies were started with venture capital money from the US big pharma industries . It’s a fact.

 

[ghreid]

I'm also a physician and when my cardiologist suggested that I consider a GLP-1,vlooked into it. Was going to cost me $875/month for brand as was not covered by insurance. My PCP suggested compounding pharmacy which brought price down to $285/month. After discovering grey market and reading the NEJM article about reta decided to jump into the water. My doc's have been very happy with the results (100lbs) and have been following my progress closely. Now starting to jump down the rabbit hole looking at so many other peptides.

 

[krsct]

Yes we are. Just a simple Google search will give you several companies in CN that manufacture for the two big GLP companies. Many of the CN companies were started with venture capital money from the US big pharma industries . It’s a fact.

And I guess that the legal US compounders get it from these same companies?

 

[Chili777]

我也是一名医生，当我的心脏病专家建议我考虑使用GLP-1时，我做了些研究。由于医保不涵盖，品牌药每月要花费我875美元。我的家庭医生建议我去配药药房，这样价格降到了每月285美元。在发现灰色市场并阅读了《新英格兰医学杂志》上关于零售药房的文章后，我决定尝试一下。我的医生们对我的效果非常满意（减重100磅），并且一直在密切关注我的进展。现在我开始深入研究其他肽类药物了。

太棒了！恭喜！！

 

[Chili777]

我猜想，美国合法的药品生产商也是从这些公司采购的吧？

现在还有合法的配药商吗？还是只是那些还没收到停止销售通知书的？是的，他们的原料来源都一样。以前（或者说现在）有一些美国公司声称自己会进行原料的冻干处理，但我不知道现在是否属实。这里有些人对这方面比较了解，或许有更确切的信息。

 

[neo6488]

我猜想，美国合法的药品生产商也是从这些公司采购的吧？

他们没有说明货源。不过，大型制药公司曾表示他们不向配药商出售这些药物，所以它们肯定有来源。

 

[Jellybelly54]

他们没有说明货源。不过，大型制药公司曾表示他们不向配药商出售这些药物，所以它们肯定有来源。

美国食品药品监督管理局 (FDA) 有一份全球范围内获得 FDA 批准的药品生产商名单，这些生产商生产的药品可以进口到美国，并由符合 503a 或 503b 条件的药房进行配制。像礼来公司这样的制药企业无需被归类为 503a 或 503b 药房，因为他们的最终产品已经过 FDA 的测试和批准。礼来公司在北卡罗来纳州从中国进口大量原料药，然后进行测试、加工和包装，最终制成注射笔，销往世界各地。

 

[Sasquatch]

老兄，我根本不想知道这些。

大脚怪的肾脏很值钱。

 

[RetCurious]

是的，我们是。只需简单地在谷歌上搜索一下，你就会发现中国有很多公司为两家大型GLP制药公司代工生产。许多中国公司最初都是由美国大型制药公司的风险投资启动的。这是事实。

Jano 在他的实验室常见问题解答中提到，中国有 2 个原料肽的来源。

 

[Jellybelly54]

Jano 在他的实验室常见问题解答中提到，中国有 2 个原料肽的来源。

那篇文章里有很多常见问题的精彩解答，

谢谢分享！

 

[krsct]

Jano 在他的实验室常见问题解答中提到，中国有 2 个原料肽的来源。

非常好的参考资料。谢谢！

 

[Nerker]

Jano 在他的实验室常见问题解答中提到，中国有 2 个原料肽的来源。

这是一份很棒的文件。

 

[joseblo]

Jano 在他的实验室常见问题解答中提到，中国有 2 个原料肽的来源。

这篇采访报道写得不错，但需要注意的是，他提到Reta（一种较新的、结构更复杂的肽）可能有两个来源。他的解释也很有道理，关键在于成熟生产工艺的成本效益。而那些较老、稀有且结构相对简单的肽（例如GHK-Cu）可能拥有更多的生产商，Sema和Tirz也是如此。化学家可以联系中国多家不同的原料生产商（他们可能也提供冻干服务）来生产小批量（<100克）的肽。当然，价格肯定不会是0.2-0.5美元/毫克。

 

[FilterOrDeath]

我今年68岁，是一名训练有素的医务人员。我收到一种装在没有标签的玻璃小瓶里的白色粉末，（我猜测但不能确定）它来自地球另一端某个专制国家，是用加密货币支付的（我平时用不到加密货币）。

然后我把它稀释后注射到体内，希望它能带来预期的良好效果，也希望不会受到伤害。

然而，效果却出奇的好，我现在处于人生最佳状态！

所以你就是直接从配制到注射，中间没有过滤步骤吗？我总是很惊讶有些人不这么做。

 

[Calm Logic]

我总是很惊讶有些人竟然不这么做。

To play devil's advocate: How many airlocks to get to your ISO 5 cleanroom?

The concern many have with filtering is that one may be creating a bigger problem:

At home, every time you move your arm to reach for a vial, you are shedding thousands of skin cells and bacteria (like Staph) into the air current.

Real cleanrooms use positive pressure to push air out. A home setup usually has neutral or negative pressure, meaning every time a door opens in the house, a "plume" of dust and pet dander is pulled toward the workspace.

A syringe filter catches bacteria, but it doesn't kill them. If your technique is slow, you are essentially concentrating contaminants onto a membrane and then high-pressuring your peptide solution through that "bio-mat."

 

[yrrdead]

To play devil's advocate: How many airlocks to get to your ISO 5 cleanroom?

Often the reluctance with filtering is the concern that one may be creating a bigger problem.

After filtering my last couple vials I just have the feeling that with all the steps(multiple syringes, multiple pokes, new vials/carts) just increases my chances of introducing contamination. I'm betting someone real smart could do some cool probabilities. I'd be betting that would show it to be a wash unless you were taking some extreme steps(or have access) with a sterile working environment.

 

[FilterOrDeath]

Yes I'm still surprised when people don't filter. So I ask and try and add some levity to the question because I am curious. And a lot of the new people don't know about it so never considered it as an option to implement or ignore.

I personally don't think the process is difficult at all but I have worked in a lab before. I don't use pens either but the ones that do have a lot of experience doing the entire process already so it's easy to just add the filter during that step for them. And I don't completely agree with the Gemini AI answer, they are almost always inaccurate in some way or put their best guess in there, it's wild. My own thought process has always been that we have zero control over what happened to it when it was created, the quality or cleanliness of the labs, or in shipping etc. It's the grey market so we just accept that. But I do have control over the filtering and the quality of sterilization of the products I buy. I know which process was used in the sterilization and the materials they are made of etc. Even if it only filters out bacteria, tiny pieces that didn't dissolve, or debris of some kind 1 time it is worth it for me. It's just my personal preference to do it every time and I'm curious why others do not and their thought process. I have had one person say it was the added cost. Another say they didn't know if they could keep the area clean to do it properly until they got the 70% alcohol spray. I see some here worry that it could cause the issue. And far more did not know what it is.

There are people on here that don't filter or even change needles every time and that's fine for them. We all decide what we are willing to try so it's good to have the information to make that decision.

 

[yrrdead]

Yes I'm still surprised when people don't filter. So I ask and try and add some levity to the question because I am curious. And a lot of the new people don't know about it so never considered it as an option to implement or ignore.

I personally don't think the process is difficult at all but I have worked in a lab before. I don't use pens either but the ones that do have a lot of experience doing the entire process already so it's easy to just add the filter during that step for them. And I don't completely agree with the Gemini AI answer, they are almost always inaccurate in some way or put their best guess in there, it's wild. My own thought process has always been that we have zero control over what happened to it when it was created, the quality or cleanliness of the labs, or in shipping etc. It's the grey market so we just accept that. But I do have control over the filtering and the quality of sterilization of the products I buy. I know which process was used in the sterilization and the materials they are made of etc. Even if it only filters out bacteria, tiny pieces that didn't dissolve, or debris of some kind 1 time it is worth it for me. It's just my personal preference to do it every time and I'm curious why others do not and their thought process. I have had one person say it was the added cost. Another say they didn't know if they could keep the area clean to do it properly until they got the 70% alcohol spray. I see some here worry that it could cause the issue. And far more did not know what it is.

There are people on here that don't filter or even change needles every time and that's fine for them. We all decide what we are willing to try so it's good to have the information to make that decision.

Not surprising that someone with practical lab experience is a proponent . I have all the materials and just did it for the first time last week. Now I would consider myself relatively competent in most things. I can read, digest and apply. Background in electronics now working in water quality. I thought it went okay, only wasted one needle and one barrel by not following procedure. Should be smoother next time.

That being said after my first experience filtering if you were to do some type of meta analysis of everyone out there reconstituting their own peps, I'm pretty confident that we are probably doing more harm than good. Just the sheer amount of additional supplies , each one is another "point of failure". So on the assumption of a suspect vial I'm going to count on my technique and expertise as well as assuming the sterility of each additional component is "good" while assuming my peptide vial is "bad". That seems like a poor assumption. Especially with my technique and expertise which is extremely lacking.

If I had years of sterile lab technique experience and training, filtering would be automatic. For the rest of us I think it is much more nuanced. I will continue to use up all the supplies that I currently have but will I continue after that? Probably not, unless @IshimaruKenta comes down with dysentery again.