When testing our peptides how do we know there isn't a small amount of something very dangerous present?

[Grogu]

What I'm worried about though is that other 0.2%.

I’m pretty risk averse and my mind can run wild at times, but as others have mentioned, there is no way to completely eliminate the risk. But I totally understand your concern.

I personally think the most important thing is the selection of your vendor. Well established vendors have track records with test results provided online and good reputations. Many of these vendors have thousands of customers and active testing communities. If group testing is easy to find and the vendor has large telegram channels, this will help reduce your risk.

Once you have chosen a reputable vendor, join test groups that test more than mass/purity for the batches you buy… There are additional tests that can be done beyond mass/purity.

I also think that delaying the use of your peptides is also a good strategy for risk reduction. As awful as it sounds, don’t be the canary in the mine. If you followed step 1 and have chosen your vendor carefully, participated in group testing beyond mass/purity, then let others pin before you. Serious adverse reactions will likely be reported.

Don’t chase vendors for price, chase reputation.

 

[latviantower]

I’m pretty risk averse and my mind can run wild at times….

Don’t chase vendors for price, chase reputation.

While I can appreciate the concept of a “reputable vendor,” I struggle to attach that label to a gray market vendor or reseller. What constitutes “reputable?” Fast communication? Low prices? Readily available testing reports that you can reliably link to specific batches of their products? Quick shipping? Best two out of three?

From my fairly ignorant perspective, I understand there are actually only a few (two?) manufacturers of these products. They sell en masse to a variety of vendors, who in turn sell to us and a host of resellers around the world.

Testing can occur at any point in the supply chain - accurately tying results to product is a game of smoke and mirrors imo. Unless you join a peer group of users or send vials yourself, should you trust a testing report?

As for testing specifics, we rarely see anything beyond mass and purity. The “inside scoop” from the testing realm is pretty reassuring, though. The folks we rely on in the testing lab state that endotoxin, heavy metal and sterility testing is overwhelmingly a waste of product and money. (The exception would be sterility testing of BAC water.)

I’ve ordered from most of the “big name” vendors and had good luck with all of them in terms of communication, price and shipping. And their products seem to work for my research. Does that make them “reputable?”

Ironically, because of a contaminated batch of tirz and the vendor’s ethical response, I probably have a higher opinion of MIX than other vendors I’ve used. So my positive feedback is a result of their bad luck?

I am the canary. Are you?

 

[Sasquatch]

Oh, and remember, the vials that don't have a handwritten, obscure label, read "Do Not Use."

 

[Grogu]

While I can appreciate the concept of a “reputable vendor,” I struggle to attach that label to a gray market vendor or reseller. What constitutes “reputable?” Fast communication? Low prices? Readily available testing reports that you can reliably link to specific batches of their products? Quick shipping? Best two out of three?

As for testing specifics, we rarely see anything beyond mass and purity.

I am the canary. Are you?

Just a couple of thoughts. There is definitely testing happening beyond mass/purity, but it’s rarer as you mention but definitely exists. I was recently in two groups that tested everything under the sun. But I’m risk averse and like the reassurance. If OP is that really that concerned about the .2% then they definitely should consider being part of a group that tests beyond mass/purity. It’s out there.

Reputation in a market where most payments are made with untraceable payments, with vendors with disposable contact information, and often nuked channels doesn’t inspire a great deal of trust. We’re all canaries. But some vendors have been around longer than others and have more published test results and user experiences. Everyone has to use their own criterion in deciding on a vendor. I’m sure many use price and that’s fine. I don’t think higher price necessarily means “better” and that lower necessarily means “bad”.

Recently there was a popular vendor (although I don’t think it should matter who the vendor is) that had a third party test come back with failed sterility. I would say that that batch only failed because this vendors products are often tested beyond mass/purity. Why were they tested beyond mass/purity? Probably because the community is large enough to support larger group tests.

Can’t fail sterility or endotoxins if they are not being tested. The vendor has agreed to pay for multiple additional sterility tests and the community has gathered and is testing 40 additional vials for sterility. There is no way in heck that if the vendor was XYZ or ABC that the sterility issue would have even been noticed. Was it a single vial issue, testing issue, or a larger problem in manufacturing? I guess we’ll find out. But if it is a production issue, I’d imagine this vendor will likely make good. This speaks to reputation to me. Large community, frequent testing, long history, and vendors that do the right thing. Until they don’t…

 

[Chili777]

Honestly, I don't even think about that small amount. I stick with vendors that have good reputations and have not had an issue.

Recently Novo Nordisk had to recall a bunch of sema pens when biologics were found...how many of those were actually injected into people before the recall?

I had a woman yell at me on a forum for buying scary Chinese peptides, yelled at me for being dangerous all the while she was happily buying Chinese peptides off of a US RUO website. Go figure.

There is risk in everything we do, I guess it just comes down to what is an acceptable risk and what isn't.

I ride horses. I know at my age if I come off one of my horses it's not going to be a pretty scene...yet, for me, I accept that risk...maybe I'll change my mind if I wind up in a hospital, I doubt it.

Was that on Reddit? There was some nutty woman who laid into me just like that, all the while claiming her peptides were American made, from APIs to final production. No amount of logic or data from me or anyone else could convince her otherwise, and we were all poisoning ourselves. I think her last post was sitting at -178.

 

[FarmgirlRebel]

Was that on Reddit? There was some nutty woman who laid into me just like that, all the while claiming her peptides were American made, from APIs to final production. No amount of logic or data from me or anyone else could convince her otherwise, and we were all poisoning ourselves. I think her last post was sitting at -178.

Yes it was and one of the reasons I don't even bother with Reddit as it is full of idiocrasy. To find some good nuggets of information one has to wade through piles of shit and some downright scary people...One guy said he went into cardiac arrest when, for the first time, he injected 500mg of NAD+ ...I just couldn't anylonger.

 

[Chili777]

Yes it was and one of the reasons I don't even bother with Reddit as it is full of idiocrasy. To find some good nuggets of information one has to wade through piles of shit and some downright scary people...One guy said he went into cardiac arrest when, for the first time, he injected 500mg of NAD+ ...I just couldn't anylonger.

My fav is still the guy who pinned 30 mg of Reta on his first go. He shall live in infamy. He lived.

 

[Rezn8]

For starters there is no reason for anything dangerous to be anywhere near the manufacturing area where they are mixing peptides. So at worst you might get a peptide contaminated with another peptide .. like your example of sema mixed in with tirz.

The largest batch of sema I could find was 20mg .. .2% of that would be .04mg. A miniscule amount that is in no way dangerous if you took it all at one time let alone if it were mixed in with something else and split up in multiple doses.

Of course your mind races ahead to other scenarios. But what if this, But what if that. Here is the truth .. every time you eat, drink or inject something into your body you are relying on someone else taking the proper care to ensure that its safe. I could tell you so many stories about there being failure at some point in the production line of something and someone getting sick or dying. It happens all over the world, yes even here in the US.

I realize that you are extra paranoid about this because you are stepping outside of the normal .. but honestly these peptides aren't any more dangerous than taking something that the pharmacy gives you. The biggest difference is if there is someone to sue after something bad happens. There wouldn't be malpractice cases if fuck-ups didn't happen when people depend on the legitimate medical industry.

Great point!!! I never thought of it this way. Even that bottle of water I'm drinking has the potential to kill me, and yet I completely trust that it won't.

 

[agussie]

My fav is still the guy who pinned 30 mg of Reta on his first go. He shall live in infamy. He lived.

Yes it was and one of the reasons I don't even bother with Reddit as it is full of idiocrasy. To find some good nuggets of information one has to wade through piles of shit and some downright scary people...One guy said he went into cardiac arrest when, for the first time, he injected 500mg of NAD+ ...I just couldn't anylonger.

This right here is no lie. I found this community while I was trying to figure out what stg was. So glad I stumbled upon this place.

 

[FarmgirlRebel]

My fav is still the guy who pinned 30 mg of Reta on his first go. He shall live in infamy. He lived.

I saw that post! I couldn't figure out if it was click bait or he was that ridiculous

Honestly I have seen so many people buy peptides without any idea of how to use it, so injecting 30mg of reta is plausible.

 

[lessthanhalf]

While the best strategy by far is to test your own batch personally , and second to buy where group testing is being done, and third buy from vendors from batches where third party testing has already been done, etc. Most people are not testing.

I find it weird that what is essentially a purely reputation market works much better than I would guess it should. I think if no one was doing independent third party testing, standards would be worse as no one would get caught selling crap or nothing or mislabelled products, but thankfully some tests are being done, and the tests the sellers do to make sure they are not being sold crap or nothing and to reassure their customers, all seem to somehow work. The cost of being caught selling bad peptides is possibly large in terms of lost sales, hundreds of thousands to millions, so it is really only this keeping them honest. The cost to set up a replacement business is tiny, and the profit margin must be huge, so you might think it would not matter , but there are a surplus of sellers, so the hardest part of starting up as a new vendor is acquiring customers, and the only way to keep them is to never get caught out selling crap. Which thankfully for us gives them a surprisingly strong motive for quality control. At least this is the best theory I can work out for why it somehow works.

The studies I have read of actual real researchers buying peptides from random sellers online show very high rates - at least half - of mislabelled or no product or underdosed product when tested, so buying randomly is actually risky and genuinely dangerous, but there is zero chance that is what is happening here, as they would be getting caught out much more often if it were anywhere near that common. There is unfortunately no way to work out the actual numbers involved from the info on the forum, but there seems to be less than one scandal per month or two at most.

I am definitely not an economist but I still find it weird that this reputation market somehow works for peptides from China but not for Amazon US, where as far as I can tell probably half the supplements are underdosed or fake, yet every product has customer reviews , and I can still find my review where I said a product was fraudulent and it has not been deleted.

 

[Grogu]

I find it weird that what is essentially a purely reputation market works much better than I would guess it should. I think if no one was doing independent third party testing, standards would be worse as no one would get caught selling crap or nothing or mislabelled products, but thankfully some tests are being done, and the tests the sellers do to make sure they are not being sold crap or nothing and to reassure their customers, all seem to somehow work.

By day, I’m not an economist, but I have some training in econometrics and scientific methods. I also have some training in accounting and business concepts. So, naturally, I’m fascinated with these vendors business models and I often contemplate the magnitude of their operations. If I had to estimate, I would say some of the larger vendors have annual sales in the hundreds of millions of dollars. So, while the entry costs are low, the big players have more to lose and more incentive to provide quality products.

 

[Peptidedudez]

You dont tbh. One thing that is tested that you dont find on many COA are metals which is a start.

 

[CornPop]

You dont tbh. One thing that is tested that you dont find on many COA are metals which is a start.

The guy who runs janoshik said he’s never seen a peptide test high for metals and it’s the biggest waste of a test. Guess there’s probably more metals in my tuna but im still gonna eat it

 

[Peptidesearch]

There could be some not so "healthy" chemicals in the excipients used to form the puck which helps the peptide stay stable and dissolve fully with BAC.

Lots of good info in this interview.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cb8gKYMkJIQ

 

[JoonyO]

There could be some not so "healthy" chemicals in the excipients used to form the puck which helps the peptide stay stable and dissolve fully with BAC.

Lots of good info in this interview.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cb8gKYMkJIQ

Well, my biggest take away from the video is looking forward to hearing the outcome of the frozen/thaw testing Josh says he'll do.

Oh and that he and his Mrs. aren't GLP users...

 

[Gwynhwyfar]

Well, my biggest take away from the video is looking forward to hearing the outcome of the frozen/thaw testing Josh says he'll do.

Oh and that he and his Mrs. aren't GLP users...

But I thought he just said he takes Reta? Perhaps not heard everything right, because English is not my mother tongue.

 

[tendency]

I'm fairly new to the grey peptides world so this may be a noob question but it's something that's been bugging me a fair bit. I know we can get our vials tested by Janoshik etc. who will confirm the amount of the product in the vial and its purity, e.g. 52mg Retatrutide at 99.8% purity. That's all well and good and gives me confidence that the vial contains what I paid for.

What I'm worried about though is that other 0.2%. Just like how 15mg Tirz is a sustainable doze but if you take 15mg Sema you're risking a trip to ER there could be contaminants within that 0.2% that are highly deadly even in small concentrations to that point that even that 0.2% could be dangerous. The human body is a very complex thing and there are toxins like botulinum toxin where even 0.1 nanogram (a nanogram is one millionth of an mg) is fatal to an adult human.

How are we supposed to know that the remaining 0.2% doesn't contain some other peptide or some peptide residue which turns out to be extremely lethal to our bodies because it interacts with other proteins in our body in an unexpected or unknown way that's really bad?

I know people take these peptides all the time and I haven't personally heard about this happening to anyone but I was wondering if there's some way to get some confidence that what I'm injecting doesn't contain something super dangerous or is it something we just have to accept on trust based on the fact that it hasn't happened to anyone else yet so very likely isn't going to happen to us?

I had some of the same concerns when I was starting out. What I did was pour over countless forum threads digesting people's experiences and 'lesson's learned' with assorted grey vendors. Read vendor reviews. Once I was as sure as I could be regarding said vendor I'd order a couple kits as a test run. Upon arrival re-constitute and filter. Let 'er rip. So far I've had 0 issues with the reputable China vendors (admittedly only worked with 2 ).

Interestingly, the one time I had an issue with contamination was when I foolishly ordered from an un-vetted US reseller

 

[Peptidesearch]

Well, my biggest take away from the video is looking forward to hearing the outcome of the frozen/thaw testing Josh says he'll do.

Oh and that he and his Mrs. aren't GLP users...

They're both on Reta.

 

[Peptidesearch]

But I thought he just said he takes Reta? Perhaps not heard everything right, because English is not my mother tongue.

You heard correctly, they're both on Reta.