Thoughts on HGH

[CNCCurrency]

I think posting that info is useful. Presumably you got it from where I did as my info was identical. What I have seen on this forum and worse still on meso suggests people usually have an incorrect idea of what normal levels are. From what people say they are taking and especially from what bodybuilders can take it is very easy to get a false impression that doses of 4iu a day and up are not high doses. Doses of 2iu or less are at least closer to physiological for young people, but the reality is no one knows what the long term consequences are of taking hgh especially in older people who are taking it for visceral fat reduction or muscle mass maintenance, which seems to be the most common reason here. The long term studies just are not there, a few short term ones and animal studies. Relatively low levels of gh are very common with increasing age and more so with obesity, but it is important to remember that no medical recommendations exist for using it in those cases, the risks are thought to be greater than the benefits. I would be surprised if wellness clinics and celebrity doctors did not use it but that does not make it safe.

The secretagogues are possibly a bit safer in that they do not increase levels as much as hgh, but there is no evidence of long term safety. Short term improvements of things like visceral fat or lipids or body composition have been shown in studies of tesamorelin in HIV patients, but given the large number of animal studies showing better life expectancy with gh deficiency you really need the long term safety data to have any real idea of long term safety, and it is not likely to happen , as generally Doctors consider it a bad bet on safety, making long term studies hard to justify.

I am a bit hypocritical here given I am taking 1.5iu/day, (have not yet had igf-1 checked, but plan to ). I assume that 15mg tirz plus 5mg of reta should be enough to stop blood glucose going up, but that will get checked as well. My logic is that given the high overall health risks I have and that if I regain some or all of the 54% weight I have lost my odds of a further 10 years of reasonable health approach zero. (this is not that common a risk profile). So that possible small additional risks from hgh are probably lower than the benefit I get from helping to keep weight/fat off. Probably unprovable logic, but it makes sense to me. This logic is not going to apply to the vast majority of people on this forum who are at more normal levels of risk, where the risks of hgh or secretagogues, or ghrelin agonists are very likely to be higher than the benefits or are unknown.

My glucose and hgb increased initially but have both come down to normal within 2 months.

 

[lessthanhalf]

I am hoping the studies that show low doses of HGH improving cardiac function turn out to apply to humans. Having a small amount of left atrial and ventricular enlargement and marginally reduced ejection fraction, puts me in class b heart failure, with anatomical changes but no symptoms. Presumably this is due to longstanding severe obesity. I guess I will find out next time I have an echo in 6 months time if this was a good or bad idea, either way it carries a 1-2% risk of turning into real heart failure a year, that would go up drastically were I to regain weight.

On the other hand higher doses of HGH can definitely cause cardiac enlargement and heart failure. The people on Meso often treat themselves with statins and antihypertensives to counter some of the negative cardiovascular risks of high dose androgens and HGH, which is sensible enough but I doubt it would be sufficient to reduce the extra risks back down to anywhere near normal levels. I remember reading the post last year from a 33 yo on Meso who had a heart attack, he obviously survived, and without too much damage, but it is still unusual and very young for a fit healthy person to be having that happen at that age.

 

[Nopenada]

Not for know it all's

Good starting point for inexperienced users:

1 mg = 3 IU

1 IU = 0.33 mg

Starting dose:

• Age below 30 years:

1.2 – 1.5 IU per day (0.4 – 0.5 mg/day) (may be higher for patients transitioning from pediatric treatment)

• Age 30-60 years:

0.6 – 0.9 IU per day (0.2 – 0.3 mg/day)

• Age over 60 years:

0.3 -0.6 IU per day (0.1-0.2 mg/day)

Patient with diabetes or who are susceptible to insulin resistance / glucose intolerance should use the lowest starting dose (0.3 -0.6 IU per day) regardless of age.

Subcutaneous injections are usually administered in the evening to mimic physiologic nocturnal GH secretion.

Dose escalation (titration):

At 1- to 2-month intervals, increase dose in increments of 0.3 -0.6 IU per day (0.1-0.2 mg/day) based on clinical response, blood IGF-1 levels, side effects, and individual considerations such as insulin resistance / glucose intolerance.

See, this is another reason I’m not touching the stuff yet. I hadn’t even looked into mg to IU conversion yet. I got 15IU bottles for down the road vaguely assuming a 1 to 1 conversion.

I’m sitting here giggling to myself over my vendor asking me to double check the vial amounts for my order and I thought she meant to make sure I really meant to only order the little 5mg Reta bottles. Nope… she was wondering what the heck I had in mind with enough HGH to knock over a horse.

P.S. If I’m ever doing something stupid please feel free to correct me!

 

[chavez636]

I am 45 year old male i train 5 days a week jiu Jistu and weight lifting. I have been running HGH at 4iu per day for 2 months now, past few days very painful side effect carpal tunnel in my left wrist. I know now I need to cut my dose in half down to 2iu. At your age you do not need HGH trust me a waste of your money and time you won't see any benefits simply train harder and get loads of protein into you and will see much more gainz than jumping on HGH.

 

[CNCCurrency]

I am 45 year old male i train 5 days a week jiu Jistu and weight lifting. I have been running HGH at 4iu per day for 2 months now, past few days very painful side effect carpal tunnel in my left wrist. I know now I need to cut my dose in half down to 2iu. At your age you do not need HGH trust me a waste of your money and time you won't see any benefits simply train harder and get loads of protein into you and will see much more gainz than jumping on HGH.

People like you are dangerous!!! look at this guy starts at 4 iu and wonders why he has carpal tunnel. I bet you your hgb levels are off the charts also, I would be more concerned about having thick blood and a stroke, SMH Where is your md degree or any credibility to say its a waste??? I hope any reading this understands that. He is just some guy and that in his opinion on this, which basically squat

 

[Raptorrunner]

See, this is another reason I’m not touching the stuff yet. I hadn’t even looked into mg to IU conversion yet. I got 15IU bottles for down the road vaguely assuming a 1 to 1 conversion.

I’m sitting here giggling to myself over my vendor asking me to double check the vial amounts for my order and I thought she meant to make sure I really meant to only order the little 5mg Reta bottles. Nope… she was wondering what the heck I had in mind with enough HGH to knock over a horse.

P.S. If I’m ever doing something stupid please feel free to correct me!

I think you missed something. The vials you bought are 15 iu. You don't need to do any conversion math. If you use 2 i/u per injection you've got 75 injections in your kit. If you go 5 on, 2 off you've got 15 weeks worth.

 

[CNCCurrency]

I think you missed something. The vials you bought are 15 iu. You don't need to do any conversion math. If you use 2 i/u per injection you've got 75 injections in your kit. If you go 5 on, 2 off you've got 15 weeks worth.

What? 2 iu x 7 days =14 iu unless you are referring to a kit. Why cycle it works different receptor wise than peptides?

 

[LabRatts]

Do you know what labs you need to be monitoring to take hgh, how to order them, and how to read them? Do you know what your baseline levels are? Do you know what symptoms to be watching for?

The fact that you're talking about doses instead of target response levels, heavily implies you don't know enough to be going down this path.

100% on board with this notion. Pinning HGH isn't pinning wolverine or Ghk-cu, its a bit more volatile a situation. Proceeding based on a whim isn't the thing a person wanting to be well at three times their current age would undertake. Proceed with discernment.

 

[Nopenada]

It’s been a little over a month and Tesa/ipa aren’t doing anything except helping me sleep and making my dreams vivid. I’m going to give it another month and then cycle off to see if I’m just holding water weight around my not-shrinking middle.

Between heavy workouts, cardio, and Reta everything else is shrinking. But workouts leave me very sore for at least two days afterwards so I may just be at an age where it’s time to consider the switch to low-dose HGH.

Blah.

 

[IronPaw.]

I'm just trying to save people from growing organs like enlarged hearts. If you follow some on here that don't understand iu to mg conversion. There advice is just plain dangerous!!

And solid advice on how much to take so i don't get an enlarged heart is greatly appreciated, i had been advised that 3-5IU a day is ok? I have been slowly increasing up to 2IU twice a day, just before bed (2hrs fasted) and first thing in the morning 4:30am (fasting till 10am).

I am looking to burn fat and improve my sleep, is .45IU twice a day enough to achieve this and safely?

 

[CNCCurrency]

Great starting point

NOTE: Growth hormone is measured in IU (international units) and mg (milligrams):

1 mg = 3 IU

1 IU = 0.33 mg

Starting dose:

• Age below 30 years:

1.2 – 1.5 IU per day (0.4 – 0.5 mg/day) (may be higher for patients transitioning from pediatric treatment)

• Age 30-60 years:

0.6 – 0.9 IU per day (0.2 – 0.3 mg/day)

• Age over 60 years:

0.3 -0.6 IU per day (0.1-0.2 mg/day)

Patient with diabetes or who are susceptible to insulin resistance / glucose intolerance should use the lowest starting dose (0.3 -0.6 IU per day) regardless of age.

Subcutaneous injections are usually administered in the evening to mimic physiologic nocturnal GH secretion.

Dose escalation (titration):

At 1- to 2-month intervals, increase dose in increments of 0.3 -0.6 IU per day (0.1-0.2 mg/day) based on clinical response, blood IGF-1 levels, side effects, and individual considerations such as insulin resistance / glucose intolerance.

Longer time intervals and smaller dose increments may be necessary in older patients.

Goal with GH treatment:

Aim for blood IGF-I levels in the middle of the normal range appropriate for age and sex, unless side effects are significant. Consider a trial of higher GH doses to determine whether this provides further benefit as long as the serum IGF-I levels remain within the normal range and the patient does not experience side effects.

Monitoring:

While IGF-1 levels are not a good indicator of GH status, the usefulness of IGF-1 for monitoring treatment of GH disorders in adulthood is now widely accepted, especially as GH-dosing regimens for growth hormone deficiency have evolved from weight-based dosing (associated with overtreatment and side effects) to individualized dose-titration strategies, which maintain IGF1 within target limits.[7]

At 6-month intervals once maintenance doses are achieved. Monitoring should include clinical evaluation and assessment of side effects, blood IGF-1, fasting blood glucose levels, and T3, T4 and free T4, as well at lipid profile. Quality of life measurements may be done every 6 or 12 months.

Patients on concurrent thyroid, sex hormone or glucocorticoid treatment may need dose adjustments after starting GH replacement therapy.

Factors that may cause a need for higher GH doses:

• Young patients regardless of onset type

• Low blood IGF-1 levels

• Addition of oral estrogen

• Change from transdermal to oral estrogen

• To induce breakdown of stored body fat (lipolysis)

Factors that may cause a need for lower GH doses:

• Elderly patients

• High blood IGF-1 levels

• Discontinuation of oral estrogen

• Change from oral to transdermal estrogen

• Co-treatment with testosterone

• Elevation in fasting blood glucose and/or HbA1c (i.e. worsening glucose tolerance)

• Side effects

 

[lessthanhalf]

I found this, it has a fairly good review of studies of hgh and related drugs on human aging and lots of examples of doses used in the studies.

Frontiers | Growth hormone and aging: a clinical review

Aging is a complex biological process characterized by functional decline, reduced quality of life, and increased vulnerability to diseases such as type 2 di...

www.frontiersin.org

 

[Calm Logic]

I found this, it has a fairly good review of studies of hgh and related drugs on human aging and lots of examples of doses used in the studies.

Frontiers | Growth hormone and aging: a clinical review

Aging is a complex biological process characterized by functional decline, reduced quality of life, and increased vulnerability to diseases such as type 2 di...

www.frontiersin.org

Best article on H/GH ever. Thanks!

 

[BillGoldberg]

Acromegaly and organomegaly aren’t as much of a concern as people make them out to be. Believe it’s overhyped. Listen to any knowledgeable source and they will say running high levels of IGF-1 for extended periods of time lis the problem.

 

[CNCCurrency]

Acromegaly and organomegaly aren’t as much of a concern as people make them out to be. Believe it’s overhyped. Listen to any knowledgeable source and they will say running high levels of IGF-1 for extended periods of time lis the problem.

I do a low dose and don't give organ growth a second thought. Now if I was doing crazy iu's like some mention.

 

[RoadRash]

Im thinking about starting hgh probably something low around 6-8IUs a day. Im 18 yrs old and Im just looking to increase bonemass/musclemass and keep my growth hormone supply high for my overall health. Im on Reta and i'll be monitoring my glucose, so i wont have the appetite to give myself diabetes. I already have been doing natural methods to max out my test and growth hormone since I was 15 (ive had a beard since i was 16). Im clearly either past-puberty or at the end, so Im not really in it for the height gain. I know that taking test is obviosuly much better but Its so much more work especially for when i want to have kids and have to deal with hgc and a million other ones to take to counteract the side effects. Its very tiring and almost impossible to naturally max out my hgh and if im going to take a peptide for it i would rather have it be exogenous instead of something like ipa/cjc.

Im wondering if any of you guys have been on a long-term lowdose of HGH and how it worked for you.

Don't. Don't use AAS and for certain stay away from hgh. 18 years old? WTF?

 

[RoadRash]

And solid advice on how much to take so i don't get an enlarged heart is greatly appreciated, i had been advised that 3-5IU a day is ok? I have been slowly increasing up to 2IU twice a day, just before bed (2hrs fasted) and first thing in the morning 4:30am (fasting till 10am).

I am looking to burn fat and improve my sleep, is .45IU twice a day enough to achieve this and safely?

3iu. 5iu is too much.

 

[IronPaw.]

3iu. 5iu is too much.

I have reduced it to 1.2IU twice a day, is this still to high?

 

[CNCCurrency]

I have reduced it to 1.2IU twice a day, is this still to high?

Starting dose:

• Age below 30 years:

1.2 – 1.5 IU per day (0.4 – 0.5 mg/day) (may be higher for patients transitioning from pediatric treatment)

• Age 30-60 years:

0.6 – 0.9 IU per day (0.2 – 0.3 mg/day)

• Age over 60 years:

0.3 -0.6 IU per day (0.1-0.2 mg/day)

Patient with diabetes or who are susceptible to insulin resistance / glucose intolerance should use the lowest starting dose (0.3 -0.6 IU per day) regardless of age.

Subcutaneous injections are usually administered in the evening to mimic physiologic nocturnal GH secretion.

Dose escalation (titration):

At 1- to 2-month intervals, increase dose in increments of 0.3 -0.6 IU per day (0.1-0.2 mg/day) based on clinical response, blood IGF-1 levels, side effects, and individual considerations such as insulin resistance / glucose intolerance.

Longer time intervals and smaller dose increments may be necessary in older patients.

Goal with GH treatment:

Aim for blood IGF-I levels in the middle of the normal range appropriate for age and sex, unless side effects are significant. Consider a trial of higher GH doses to determine whether this provides further benefit as long as the serum IGF-I levels remain within the normal range and the patient does not experience side effects.

Monitoring:

While IGF-1 levels are not a good indicator of GH status, the usefulness of IGF-1 for monitoring treatment of GH disorders in adulthood is now widely accepted, especially as GH-dosing regimens for growth hormone deficiency have evolved from weight-based dosing (associated with overtreatment and side effects) to individualized dose-titration strategies, which maintain IGF1 within target limits.[7]

At 6-month intervals once maintenance doses are achieved. Monitoring should include clinical evaluation and assessment of side effects, blood IGF-1, fasting blood glucose levels, and T3, T4 and free T4, as well at lipid profile. Quality of life measurements may be done every 6 or 12 months.

Patients on concurrent thyroid, sex hormone or glucocorticoid treatment may need dose adjustments after starting GH replacement therapy.

Factors that may cause a need for higher GH doses:

• Young patients regardless of onset type

• Low blood IGF-1 levels

• Addition of oral estrogen

• Change from transdermal to oral estrogen

• To induce breakdown of stored body fat (lipolysis)

Factors that may cause a need for lower GH doses:

• Elderly patients

• High blood IGF-1 levels

• Discontinuation of oral estrogen

• Change from oral to transdermal estrogen

• Co-treatment with testosterone

• Elevation in fasting blood glucose and/or HbA1c (i.e. worsening glucose tolerance)

 

[SoCalGirl]

See, this is another reason I’m not touching the stuff yet. I hadn’t even looked into mg to IU conversion yet. I got 15IU bottles for down the road vaguely assuming a 1 to 1 conversion.

I’m sitting here giggling to myself over my vendor asking me to double check the vial amounts for my order and I thought she meant to make sure I really meant to only order the little 5mg Reta bottles. Nope… she was wondering what the heck I had in mind with enough HGH to knock over a horse.

P.S. If I’m ever doing something stupid please feel free to correct me!

I SO needed a laugh today. Imagine the horse falling over. Sorry. Dark Horse in the house!