Testosterone replacement

[Such1943]

It’s been a slippery slope for me, similar to how I approached peptides when I first got into them. Back then I wanted to try everything that looked good on paper. About a year later I’ve narrowed it down to a few that I’m comfortable running long term.

Once I had my TRT dialed in and my bloodwork in a good place, total and free T, E2, hematocrit and hemoglobin, lipids, and AST and ALT, I started looking into other compounds. That led me to experimenting with DHT-based compounds to help manage E2, basically treating them like a “healthier” alternative to AIs.

Now I’m six weeks into a blast of test, primo (E2 control and dryness), and NPP (joint support). I’ve got bloodwork tomorrow and no matter what it shows, I’m planning to cut everything back by at least half. I know what I am doing is not exactly smart.

Kind of funny, I had enough sense to stay away from recreational use when I was younger, but now I’m here experimenting with it.

 

[Volkswagen57]

It’s been a slippery slope for me, similar to how I approached peptides when I first got into them. Back then I wanted to try everything that looked good on paper. About a year later I’ve narrowed it down to a few that I’m comfortable running long term.

Once I had my TRT dialed in and my bloodwork in a good place, total and free T, E2, hematocrit and hemoglobin, lipids, and AST and ALT, I started looking into other compounds. That led me to experimenting with DHT-based compounds to help manage E2, basically treating them like a “healthier” alternative to AIs.

Now I’m six weeks into a blast of test, primo (E2 control and dryness), and NPP (joint support). I’ve got bloodwork tomorrow and no matter what it shows, I’m planning to cut everything back by at least half. I know what I am doing is not exactly smart.

Kind of funny, I had enough sense to stay away from recreational use when I was younger, but now I’m here experimenting with it.

Curious what your dosages are for the test, primo, and npp. Also the price of primo is ridiculous . Do you use us domestic brewers or Chinese oils?

 

[soapysnake]

Before you make a decision especially at your age make sure you fully understand what you’re committing to. When I started my total test was 446 and free 64. 4 months in total currently 1302 and free 220. Feel amazing, energy like I’m 20 again, total body recomp happening and building muscle. 6’ 185. But I’m 47 and committing to this for the next 30-40 years (hopefully). FSH and LH shut down basically 0 natural production. Way less sensitivity during sex, constant bloodwork insuring all other levels are good. Started hcg hoping to increase sensitivity. The longer you’re on TRT the harder it would be to ever stop even if you wanted to. At 30 the only way I’d consider doing it would be keeping your natural production intact. Look at what the long term requires. If enclo increased your numbers so much why’d you feel worse. Numbers to high, dose not dialed in for optimal effect, estrogen levels out of wack? What makes you feel like testosterone alone would be different?

Yeah the time thing is my biggest reason for being hesitant. Enclo jacked up my estrogen and thyroid which made me feel terrible. Probably should have dosed a little differently but I was following what my doctor prescribed. Got estrogen down with AI and started taking a thyroid med as well. Trying to taper off those as labs come back. Want to switch to T injections because I feel like I would have more control over estrogen fluctuations and most of my research suggests enclo doesn’t always provide the same benefits of exogenous testosterone because of the way it amplifies the entire HPG axis.

 

[Such1943]

Curious what your dosages are for the test, primo, and npp. Also the price of primo is ridiculous . Do you use us domestic brewers or Chinese oils?

Test 500 mg/week + NPP 200 mg/week + Primo 300 mg/week + 2iu HGH nightly, Reta & KLOW. Pinning total 1CC daily, .5CC volume each side rotating glutes, ventrogluteal glute, delts, and quads. Heating with coffee mug warmer and front loading lure locks and IM /w 30 Gauge 1-Inch needles. Don't do what I did and pin only Primo SubQ or IM. Unbelievable PIP.... Limped around for 5 days, lumps for 7 weeks. Also stay clear of 200mg/ml, stick to 100mg/lm primo.

I'll post my bloods next week when they come in. I'm looking forward to them, but also worried. No sides or than a bit more oily, but no acne. Not overly emotional from E2. Feel like a god damn machine in the gym, no doms, recovered the next day no matter how hard/heavy the lifts are, progressive overload weekly. It's fun. Push/Lower/pull/cardio/lower/upper/cardio. Airbike/rower.

I use domestic UGL, the OGs on Meso. I use Goodlabs for bloodwork.

 

[soapysnake]

IMO yes, bad idea to start that young unless you're 110% certain that you have a primary or secondary low T issue. You may.

However, what I wish someone had told me when I was in my mid 30s was find a competent men's health urologist or endo and try to see if you can determine what's causing the apparent low T. You don't want to go on a life long drug protocol if you can help it - my .02 cents.

People are too quick to pull the T trigger w/out doing proper due diligence first.

Totally get that. Been trying to fix low T naturally for 1.5 years now. Started around 380. Got myself to 460 naturally through better recovery. After 6+ months I tried enclo. I get 460 isn’t THAT low but just sick of being super low energy all the time.

 

[tendency]

Totally get that. Been trying to fix low T naturally for 1.5 years now. Started around 380. Got myself to 460 naturally through better recovery. After 6+ months I tried enclo. I get 460 isn’t THAT low but just sick of being super low energy all the time.

And have you considered there could be a myriad number of other issues going on that are making you feel fatigued and could, in turn, be causing the sub-optimal T levels?

Have you considered finding a good naturopath as well?

 

[slick1]

Loving this thread. Anyone in here on the younger side? I'm 30, have 4 kids and just got a vasectomy. I know I'm young right now but test was at 460 total and 10 free and I'm really tempted to start 100-120mg/week to help solve my energy issues and give myself a little boost in the gym. Lift + cardio 6 days a week and currently around 13-14% bf at 6'1 192lb. Tried enclo already and hated it. Numbers skyrocketed but felt worse than before. Been off enclo for a while now and still feel a lot of low t symptoms even with a good diet (as good as it gets with 4 young kids) and around 7 hours of sleep every night. I know I will get on eventually. I also work for a clinic so I get provider visits, labs and test for free. Question is, am I dumb to start this young?

Have you looked into HCG? It may help kick your nuts into high gear.

 

[tendency]

Hematocrit currently at 50.2 and agreed my total T was higher than I was expecting. Doing this under medical supervision and obviously everyone had a story. Diagnosed with Multiple Sclerosis at 36, 10 years of battles. Extreme fatigue and the list could go on. Have full bloodwork done every 6 months due to MS medication through neurologist and every 3 months with my TRT.

Yikes - my doc would make me cut my T cyp by 50% for 4-6 weeks if my hematocrit were at that level.

 

[Volkswagen57]

And they are still walking around with above normal hematocrit (as with just TRT sometimes), though some use home blood withdrawal kits for that (since you can only donate so often without a Rx).

I am responding to this part specifically, I am going to speak to my PCP about them prescribing therapeutic phlebotomy. My hermatocrit results came back for yesterday's blood test at 51.7. that is down from the 52.5 it was at in January.

 

[tendency]

I personally started TRT through my PCP around July-August of last year. I've been unsatisfied with PCP reception of My expression that the prescribed dose of 200mg every other week leaves me feeling horrible come week 2. I decided to get UGL test and dose myself at 250mg/week split Monday Thursday. I just had my blood drawn today 48hrs after last pin. Will be curious to see what my total, free test, and estradiol are at. Still get my prescribed testosterone, but currently stock piling it for when I travel.

125mg 2/x week is a large T dose. Your high hematocrit is confirmation that you're taking too high a dose.

 

[Volkswagen57]

125mg 2/x week is a large T dose. Your high hematocrit is confirmation that you're taking too high a dose.

It's barely above reference range, also the first blood draw in January I was referencing I was only doing the 200mg every other week. Since then I've done 125mg 2x/week. And my results from yesterday show a slight decrease in my hermatocrit from 52.5(january result) to 51.7 (yesterday result)

 

[tendency]

It's barely above reference range, also the first blood draw in January I was referencing I was only doing the 200mg every other week. Since then I've done 125mg 2x/week. And my results from yesterday show a slight decrease in my hermatocrit from 52.5(january result) to 51.7 (yesterday result)

'Barely above reference range' is not how it works for hematocrit. High normal is already dangerous. I'm just saying - word to the wise.

 

[slick1]

It's barely above reference range, also the first blood draw in January I was referencing I was only doing the 200mg every other week. Since then I've done 125mg 2x/week. And my results from yesterday show a slight decrease in my hermatocrit from 52.5(january result) to 51.7 (yesterday result)

250 mg per wk is not TRT, it's what bodybuilders were using 30-40yrs ago. It's dangerous to have high hematocrit and you will start to "FEEL" it when approaching the danger zone. Sluggish, kind of a pressure in your head, and when right on the edge, your entire body may feel itchy and strange when exerting yourself. Be careful with that, you could have a stroke!

 

[soapysnake]

And have you considered there could be a myriad number of other issues going on that are making you feel fatigued and could, in turn, be causing the sub-optimal T levels?

Have you considered finding a good naturopath as well?

We have a naturopathic MD at our clinic. Haven’t met with her yet. Was working with a different doc but I can try her next time. And yeah, my lab panels have been tracking 80+ biomarkers. Been getting them every 3 months and trying to dial them all in.

 

[soapysnake]

Have you looked into HCG? It may help kick your nuts into high gear.

Enclo kicked them in to gear. Total went to 1100 and free went to 23. Estrogen was all over the place on enclo though and may have caused some thyroid issues as well. Didn’t love not having as much control as I would with T injections.

 

[Volkswagen57]

250 mg per wk is not TRT, it's what bodybuilders were using 30-40yrs ago. It's dangerous to have high hematocrit and you will start to "FEEL" it when approaching the danger zone. Sluggish, kind of a pressure in your head, and when right on the edge, your entire body may feel itchy and strange when exerting yourself. Be careful with that, you could have a stroke!

Is it not all relative to your levels? If my free levels are outside reference range I plan to reduce my dosage.

 

[Volkswagen57]

IMO yes, bad idea to start that young unless you're 110% certain that you have a primary or secondary low T issue. You may.

However, what I wish someone had told me when I was in my mid 30s was find a competent men's health urologist or endo and try to see if you can determine what's causing the apparent low T. You don't want to go on a life long drug protocol if you can help it - my .02 cents.

People are too quick to pull the T trigger w/out doing proper due diligence first.

Very interested in the process of finding a urologist? Do you have to get a primary doctor referral in order for insurance to cover it?

 

[slick1]

Is it not all relative to your levels? If my free levels are outside reference range I plan to reduce my dosage.

It's not that simple, the answer is yes and no, Testosterone is dosed based on it's half life, so your total T will build over time. As far as free T, that is controlled by your SHBG, which in turn is controlled by many other factors. Just find a good Dr. , I'm not a big fan of those telephone diagnoses Dr's although they are convenient.

 

[Volkswagen57]

It's not that simple, the answer is yes and no, Testosterone is dosed based on it's half life, so your total T will build over time. As far as free T, that is controlled by your SHBG, which in turn is controlled by many other factors. Just find a good Dr. , I'm not a big fan of those telephone diagnoses Dr's although they are convenient.

How do I go about getting to a urologist who can better manage than what my PCP currently is?

 

[woundcarping]

How do I go about getting to a urologist who can better manage than what my PCP currently is?

Do you have a unique situation?