Retatrutide 3 month stall

[lessthanhalf]

exactly what you are describing is something that isn't real, you're body does not suddenly not need energy to function it's a complete myth. If you aren't seeing the scale move it's because you are holding on to water weight you're BMR is not changing in a significant manner.

In response to this and the previous comments. Unfortunately your science is this is not correct, while I am sure sometimes people might overuse the starvation mode concept, the drop in energy expenditure ( EE ) with weight loss is very real and very well documented in a very large number of studies, and is extremely relevant to long term weight loss and maintenance. Now does EE change on shorter timescales with dietary input, I would guess that it does to some degree, but I think the way the body works in the obese versus post weight loss states are quite different. Diet induced thermogenesis would drop on short time scales at least. And behaviour changes with calorie input, reduced calories in general will reduce motivation and sense of energy to move about and expend energy. These are strongly conserved evolutionary survival strategies to conserve energy in times of famine.

Especially with large weight losses, EE goes down due to having less fat and lean mass consuming energy, and over long periods of time - months to years chronic low calorie intake reduces EE even further. This is very well documented. In this state of reduced EE, hunger also increases directly proportional to amount of weight lost. This is why weight loss maintenance is very difficult long term, a lower than normal calorie intake is required to maintain that lower weight despite increased hunger. The drop in EE from weight loss is permanent while weight is lower and the drop in EE from metabolic adaptation is not quite as well understood and may vary between people, some do have long term increases over time, but some do not over years.

A simple example of this is at 145kg , I started on a diet without GLP drugs, of 1600-1800 kcal/day. I maintained that calorie intake the entire time from mid 2022 to now, with very minor variations. At 145kg I lost 6kg per month, which gradually slowed at about 90kg, and finally ceased completely at 75kg. So the same calorie input in those 2 states could cause 6kg/month of weight loss at 145kg or zero weight loss at 75kg. This is a very clear example of of the change in EE from weight loss, and the fact that caloric intake needed to stay at that level to maintain weight, for another 3 years, indicates it did not recover over time in me at least. 6kg/month is 6x 7700kcal, converting to daily /30 is about 1560kcal/day, so a difference in daily EE of over 1500kcal/day between the obese state and the normal weight state.

 

[woundcarping]

In response to this and the previous comments. Unfortunately your science is this is not correct, while I am sure sometimes people might overuse the starvation mode concept, the drop in energy expenditure ( EE ) with weight loss is very real and very well documented in a very large number of studies, and is extremely relevant to long term weight loss and maintenance. Now does EE change on shorter timescales with dietary input, I would guess that it does to some degree, but I think the way the body works in the obese versus post weight loss states are quite different. Diet induced thermogenesis would drop on short time scales at least. And behaviour changes with calorie input, reduced calories in general will reduce motivation and sense of energy to move about and expend energy. These are strongly conserved evolutionary survival strategies to conserve energy in times of famine.

Especially with large weight losses, EE goes down due to having less fat and lean mass consuming energy, and over long periods of time - months to years chronic low calorie intake reduces EE even further. This is very well documented. In this state of reduced EE, hunger also increases directly proportional to amount of weight lost. This is why weight loss maintenance is very difficult long term, a lower than normal calorie intake is required to maintain that lower weight despite increased hunger. The drop in EE from weight loss is permanent while weight is lower and the drop in EE from metabolic adaptation is not quite as well understood and may vary between people, some do have long term increases over time, but some do not over years.

A simple example of this is at 145kg , I started on a diet without GLP drugs, of 1600-1800 kcal/day. I maintained that calorie intake the entire time from mid 2022 to now, with very minor variations. At 145kg I lost 6kg per month, which gradually slowed at about 90kg, and finally ceased completely at 75kg. So the same calorie input in those 2 states could cause 6kg/month of weight loss at 145kg or zero weight loss at 75kg. This is a very clear example of of the change in EE from weight loss, and the fact that caloric intake needed to stay at that level to maintain weight, for another 3 years, indicates it did not recover over time in me at least. 6kg/month is 6x 7700kcal, converting to daily /30 is about 1560kcal/day, so a difference in daily EE of over 1500kcal/day between the obese state and the normal weight state.

I believe they're talking about "starvation mode", not the base metabolic rate decreasing because the body being supported by the metabolic process is substantially decreased.

Starvation mode is hokum, burning less calories because there is less of the person is normal.

 

[staffn1]

People don't starve to death fat

 

[Lovedog100]

Spoken by someone who's never experienced profound fatigue, I'm guessing? How often do you "sleep" a full night and wake up unrested? For how many days in a row?

No offense, it's just that his comment ("I can't go to the gym bc it takes too much out of me / makes my condition flare up") and yours -- "It's okay. Just exercise instead!" -- aren't compatible. It's not unusual advice, you're definitely not alone, but sometimes I take a moment to point out that it's an incongruent "solution" in hopes people might take in the possibility that their own experiences don't equal the universe of all experience. HTH, peace out

After getting Dengue fever, I went through over a year of long Dengue. I know long lasting profound fatigue. I did the walk in the park, it started at 5 minutes and I kept at it until I could do an hour 5 days a week. I just kept adding five minutes.

Almost my entire life I lived on 3-4 hours of sleep. I always woke unrested.

 

[TooGood76]

In response to this and the previous comments. Unfortunately your science is this is not correct, while I am sure sometimes people might overuse the starvation mode concept, the drop in energy expenditure ( EE ) with weight loss is very real and very well documented in a very large number of studies, and is extremely relevant to long term weight loss and maintenance. Now does EE change on shorter timescales with dietary input, I would guess that it does to some degree, but I think the way the body works in the obese versus post weight loss states are quite different. Diet induced thermogenesis would drop on short time scales at least. And behaviour changes with calorie input, reduced calories in general will reduce motivation and sense of energy to move about and expend energy. These are strongly conserved evolutionary survival strategies to conserve energy in times of famine.

Especially with large weight losses, EE goes down due to having less fat and lean mass consuming energy, and over long periods of time - months to years chronic low calorie intake reduces EE even further. This is very well documented. In this state of reduced EE, hunger also increases directly proportional to amount of weight lost. This is why weight loss maintenance is very difficult long term, a lower than normal calorie intake is required to maintain that lower weight despite increased hunger. The drop in EE from weight loss is permanent while weight is lower and the drop in EE from metabolic adaptation is not quite as well understood and may vary between people, some do have long term increases over time, but some do not over years.

A simple example of this is at 145kg , I started on a diet without GLP drugs, of 1600-1800 kcal/day. I maintained that calorie intake the entire time from mid 2022 to now, with very minor variations. At 145kg I lost 6kg per month, which gradually slowed at about 90kg, and finally ceased completely at 75kg. So the same calorie input in those 2 states could cause 6kg/month of weight loss at 145kg or zero weight loss at 75kg. This is a very clear example of of the change in EE from weight loss, and the fact that caloric intake needed to stay at that level to maintain weight, for another 3 years, indicates it did not recover over time in me at least. 6kg/month is 6x 7700kcal, converting to daily /30 is about 1560kcal/day, so a difference in daily EE of over 1500kcal/day between the obese state and the normal weight state.

You are not talking about "starvation mode" at all you are talking about expending less energy because you weigh less, not the concept that by eating at a caloric deficit makes your body go into a super secret hidden setting where it drops your BMR to 25% of normal. It's an entirely different and unrelated concept.

 

[AngieHolmes 53745]

exactly what you are describing is something that isn't real, you're body does not suddenly not need energy to function it's a complete myth. If you aren't seeing the scale move it's because you are holding on to water weight you're BMR is not changing in a significant manner.

What's it called when you don't eat adequate calories so your body "retains water" and you don't lose weight, you either maintain or gain? I mean besides "isn't real" or mythical? You're denying my personal experience so I'm wondering what the scientific name is for that?

It sounds like you're saying my experience isn't real. I see this often in CICO convos -- since someone like me has a different experience, it's usually presumed to be because I'm lying to myself about calories. Is that what you're saying? Or is it something else?

 

[AngieHolmes 53745]

After getting Dengue fever, I went through over a year of long Dengue. I know long lasting profound fatigue. I did the walk in the park, it started at 5 minutes and I kept at it until I could do an hour 5 days a week. I just kept adding five minutes.

Almost my entire life I lived on 3-4 hours of sleep. I always woke unrested.

After your walks in the park, did you experience debilitating flare-ups that caused deepened fatigue and substantial pain that you disabled you for days afterwards, like what happens with fibromyalgia? Or were you able to build on your progress, day after day?

 

[TooGood76]

What's it called when you don't eat adequate calories so your body "retains water" and you don't lose weight, you either maintain or gain? I mean besides "isn't real" or mythical? You're denying my personal experience so I'm wondering what the scientific name is for that?

It sounds like you're saying my experience isn't real. I see this often in CICO convos -- since someone like me has a different experience, it's usually presumed to be because I'm lying to myself about calories. Is that what you're saying? Or is it something else?

There's not a scientific name for it you can retain water for any number of reasons and water weight has nothing to do with fat loss.

 

[lessthanhalf]

You are not talking about "starvation mode" at all you are talking about expending less energy because you weigh less, not the concept that by eating at a caloric deficit makes your body go into a super secret hidden setting where it drops your BMR to 25% of normal. It's an entirely different and unrelated concept.

Obviously the term is being used to describe something that does not fit neatly into what is known about energy expenditure under a calorie deficit.

My guess is that EE could drop a bit short term under a low calorie diet. Just eating less would reduce diet induced thermogenesis and account for up to 10% drop in EE, but any more substantial drop would be created by just using less energy by moving less, which is a fairly common though not universal response to a low calorie diet, and partly physiological but mainly mediated via fatigue. Depending on the person and the degree of drop in activity , this could account for maybe up to a 20% drop in EE, but would be a very obvious change in activity levels to cause that degree of drop in EE.

So I do not think the whole idea is completely implausible, there are reasons EE could drop under low calorie input in the short term, but not to extreme levels. And in the long term EE drops quite a bit in response to chronic low calorie input, independently of the effects of weight loss. But this process is very slow and takes many months.

I have seen quite a few people on this forum stating that they needed caloric intakes as low as 1200 or 1400 kcal / day to not gain weight, and many more under 2000 kcal/day , me included, but all of these had already lost a lot of weight . So while many people claiming no weight loss on low calorie intakes are going to be counting calories inaccurately, as people in general are very bad at calorie counting, some do have genuinely lower than expected calorie requirements to stay weight neutral.

 

[Lovedog100]

After your walks in the park, did you experience debilitating flare-ups that caused deepened fatigue and substantial pain that you disabled you for days afterwards, like what happens with fibromyalgia? Or were you able to build on your progress, day after day?

Why don't you just tell me? It appears that you know much more about my history than me. What other assumptions do you have that you want to label me with? I don't remember ever talking with you, or even meeting you, how do you know so much about me?