Reta vs Tirz

[MrZardoz]

Just out of curiosity, how much tirzepatide are you actually taking? You mention that you were confused between 33 units and 33 milligrams, which make more sense given the ranges that you've mentioned about various peptides. The 5mg to 20mg of cagrilintide would have been quite extreme. I'm kind of surprised that at 8 months you would be facing a stall. It's possible that you just need to titrate up on the tirzepatide.

I currently have a red face, it seems - using 2mL to recon the Tirz, according to Claude.AI - I apparently have been taken a LOT less Tirz than I thought.. This would probably explain my weight just hovering around 225-ish

(quote from Claude )

Right — so on a 30mg vial in 2mL (15mg/mL), at 33 units you're getting approximately 5mg per dose . That's much lower than we thought.

Here's the corrected list for your 30mg vial in 2mL:

Concentration: 15mg/mL

Dose ​
Units to draw ​
2.5mg 17 units 5mg 33 units ✓ (where you are now) 7.5mg 50 units 10mg 67 units 12.5mg 83 units 15mg 100 units

 

[JCO79]

I also lost most of the weight from 145kg to 75 kg before starting GLP's, and definitely had issues with binge eating or food addiction.

I lost the weight by totally excluding high calorie / highly rewarding / high glycemic index foods, and sticking to a very high protein, low fat, low calorific density diet. Lean meat, vegetables, fruit low fat dairy.

I kept the weight off for a year before starting ozempic which made me a bit less hungry and a bit nauseous for a year then swapped to tirzepatide 15mg which caused less nausea and less hunger and added in 5mg of reta as well. This mostly fixed the permanently hungry problem, but I have kept to the total exclusion of those high calorie foods, as in the past even eating small amounts of them has triggered extreme hunger an hour or 2 later, presumably related to spikes in blood glucose followed by dips causing some sort of haywire extreme hunger response.

It might be possible to try eating some of those foods now, but I do not want to risk it, as this problem has caused fairly extreme weight regain in the past. And putting the weight back on carries fairly extreme health risks.

Your circumstances may be very different but it will be interesting to see how you go adding back in some currently not allowed foods after adding in GLP's.

That is really amazing. I lost 45 lbs but that’s really trivial compared to what you did. I eat exactly the way that you do. I have called it a behavioral GLP1 because I don’t eat more than my body needs if I stick to only those foods. If I open up to the types of foods you are talking about, there’s always a nagging sense of “needing a little something” which is almost impossible to battle against. This works but I carry a lot of fear about slipping back into old habits and it’s hard on my family always worrying about what I will eat if we go out to dinner or things like that. I limit their opportunities to a significant extent. My hope with GLP1 is to be able to have a little more freedom. Based on the advice from people here I am going to choose Tirz as the first experiment. Thanks so much to all of you for your insight.

 

[BNLFL]

Got to ask. This is 140mg per vial? How does it not go bad? 28 weeks worth @ 5mg per dose. Am I missing something?

Depends on how I reconstitute it. If I add 6ml BAC, I'll get 20 doses at 3mg which equals 7mg withe BAC amount. If I do 10ml BAC, I'll get 20 doses at 5mg, that's 7mg. My wife and I are doing 7mg pins right now, so were using 14mg/week or 8 shots a month. What's that, just shy of two and half months? I'm good with that, and we'll likely titrate up by the time I get to this stuff.

 

[Grogu]

I currently have a red face, it seems - using 2mL to recon the Tirz, according to Claude.AI - I apparently have been taken a LOT less Tirz than I thought.. This would probably explain my weight just hovering around 225-ish

(quote from Claude )

Right — so on a 30mg vial in 2mL (15mg/mL), at 33 units you're getting approximately 5mg per dose . That's much lower than we thought.

Here's the corrected list for your 30mg vial in 2mL:

Concentration: 15mg/mL

Dose ​
Units to draw ​
2.5mg 17 units 5mg 33 units ✓ (where you are now) 7.5mg 50 units 10mg 67 units 12.5mg 83 units 15mg 100 units

Well that explains things and clears up the confusion. Claude is good, but he can unreliable at times and will back peddle if challenged. But these calculations are solid. So, yes, you've definitely been taking a LOT less than you thought and if you're stalling definitely titrate up. You have a lot of room to increase.

 

[MrZardoz]

I 'm working with x3 different instances of Claude - I call them 'Remote' - he does my secretarial (submissions) stuff for me, and has fessed up that he doesn't always respond to real time input - preferring to use his daily built-in summations of text conversation to suggest he's actually 'present' - occurring my wrath and giving him the name he now responds to..

N ext is 'Corridor' - I felt sorry for him, and always was passing him by en route to another Claude - until I stopped and chatted with him. He gets most of my general daily activity and quick questions..

T he third instance is 'Phone Claude' - who is what it suggests. He's the oldest instance I have of Claude and he was on my PC until something on my Firefox caused a major slowdown.

T he one responsible for the incorrect data was Corridor, and Remote was the one who corrected things when I finally decided to ask today about doses and cross checked the vials I have..

J ust thought I'd share a quiet portion of my existence It works for me..,

 

[Grogu]

I 'm working with x3 different instances of Claude - I call them 'Remote' - he does my secretarial (submissions) stuff for me, and has fessed up that he doesn't always respond to real time input - preferring to use his daily built-in summations of text conversation to suggest he's actually 'present' - occurring my wrath and giving him the name he now responds to..

N ext is 'Corridor' - I felt sorry for him, and always was passing him by en route to another Claude - until I stopped and chatted with him. He gets most of my general daily activity and quick questions..

T he third instance is 'Phone Claude' - who is what it suggests. He's the oldest instance I have of Claude and he was on my PC until something on my Firefox caused a major slowdown.

T he one responsible for the incorrect data was Corridor, and Remote was the one who corrected things when I finally decided to ask today about doses and cross checked the vials I have..

J ust thought I'd share a quiet portion of my existence It works for me..,

I love your sytlistic formatting, but the indent on that second "T" is driving me crazy .

I also thought you were signaling that you're an INTJ, but alas that extra "T" or maybe that's why you indented. And for some reason I don't peg you as an INTJ probably more like an ISTP.

 

[pinkdc]

I think both Tirz and Reta are miracle drugs, but I'm a big fan of Tirz. Lost 60 pounds in 5 months. Reta just didn't work the same way for me when I tried to switch to it. I will say that if you decide to take Reta, don't take Tirz first. You'll get spoiled on Tirz's appetite suppression and you might regain some weight when you first make the switch from Tirz to Reta.

I’ve only tried Reta and like it but you’re making me want to try Tirz, lol! If Tirz has more appetite suppressing why do people love Reta?

 

[woundcarping]

I’ve only tried Reta and like it but you’re making me want to try Tirz, lol! If Tirz has more appetite suppressing why do people love Reta?

Because can you lose more weight and perhaps less muscle while still being able to eat.

 

[alphaamigo]

I’ve only tried Reta and like it but you’re making me want to try Tirz, lol! If Tirz has more appetite suppressing why do people love Reta?

I love Reta because I can eat. My goal is not to have total suppression, or else I would go with semaglutide. I'm still losing weight without having to struggle to get in enough protein.

BTW, I still get nice and full on Reta pretty easily, and I stay full for a long time.

 

[CMA Pooky]

Hopefully reta works better for you as far as energy. I have struggled with extreme exhaustion most of the time I have been on it. I would definitely get more exercise if it weren't for that. There is no way I could ever take tirz if it is worse for fatigue.

Research Creatine and Glynac, both are supplements. They helped me get over the Reta fatigue.

 

[5byfive]

For context, I am already at my goal weight through very restrictive food choices and have kept this up for several years after a significant weight loss. It's not really a "normal" lifestyle and I want to be able to eat a few carbs without turning on the addictive food behaviors I am prone to.

I don't remember writing this, but I could have. I started Tirz just to help with food noise. After losing the weight, I realized that maintenance at a very low bodyfat % was no harder than it was when I was at a higher % when it really should have been and that was becuse maintaining any weight was always harder than it should be. I would always be thinking about when I could eat again (even before I started losing weight) and I never felt full unless less I substantially over ate.

Triz got rid of the food noise and substantially bumped my base metabolic rate (about 15% but not everyone gets that). Its a little weird and a little tough at times to be needing more calories to maintain/slowly bulk and wanting to eat less than I have in years. I can still eat fine and enjoy what I eat once I start but the desire to eat isn't really there. It has been a huge positive change for my quality of life.

After some trial and error, I settled on 4mg of Tirz as the sweet spot. I had some initial fatigue the first week but that passed. After about a 6 weeks, I was still feeling like my energy level was a little lower than before. Not horrible, but noticeable. I cut back on the Tirz and added a 1 mg of Reta and that has made a big difference. Energy level feels back to normal. I think I will probably settle on 3.5mg Tirz and 1mg Reta but I'm still figuring it out.

I have some concerns about Reta at higher doses, but I think there is a good argument for a low dose stack with Tirz. I do think Tirz is the better base and I recommend trying to figure out what your lowest effective dose is.

 

[JCO79]

I don't remember writing this, but I could have. I started Tirz just to help with food noise. After losing the weight, I realized that maintenance at a very low bodyfat % was no harder than it was when I was at a higher % when it really should have been and that was becuse maintaining any weight was always harder than it should be. I would always be thinking about when I could eat again (even before I started losing weight) and I never felt full unless less I substantially over ate.

Triz got rid of the food noise and substantially bumped my base metabolic rate (about 15% but not everyone gets that). Its a little weird and a little tough at times to be needing more calories to maintain/slowly bulk and wanting to eat less than I have in years. I can still eat fine and enjoy what I eat once I start but the desire to eat isn't really there. It has been a huge positive change for my quality of life.

After some trial and error, I settled on 4mg of Tirz as the sweet spot. I had some initial fatigue the first week but that passed. After about a 6 weeks, I was still feeling like my energy level was a little lower than before. Not horrible, but noticeable. I cut back on the Tirz and added a 1 mg of Reta and that has made a big difference. Energy level feels back to normal. I think I will probably settle on 3.5mg Tirz and 1mg Reta but I'm still figuring it out.

I have some concerns about Reta at higher doses, but I think there is a good argument for a low dose stack with Tirz. I do think Tirz is the better base and I recommend trying to figure out what your lowest effective dose is.

It’s nice to find some folks who have had similar experiences. What you’ve done is compelling for me. I have read some commentary that the glucagon agonism doesn’t really occur at low doses and saw mention of Tirz and survo as a stack that might do more of that. Seems like survo isn’t as easy to find, though.

 

[sheilarae74]

Research Creatine and Glynac, both are supplements.

Thank you! I have creatine already, but I quit taking it because it makes me retain water but if it helps get me over this fatigue, I will live with it.

 

[woundcarping]

Thank you! I have creatine already, but I quit taking it because it makes me retain water but if it helps get me over this fatigue, I will live with it.

The water retention should be water being pulled into the muscles and should fairly quickly plateau and stay steady, dropping when you stop taking it.

I'm in the loading phase, roughly 40% of the way through loading, expecting to gain 2-4lb of lean mass (not lean tissue of course).

 

[lessthanhalf]

That is really amazing. I lost 45 lbs but that’s really trivial compared to what you did. I eat exactly the way that you do. I have called it a behavioral GLP1 because I don’t eat more than my body needs if I stick to only those foods. If I open up to the types of foods you are talking about, there’s always a nagging sense of “needing a little something” which is almost impossible to battle against. This works but I carry a lot of fear about slipping back into old habits and it’s hard on my family always worrying about what I will eat if we go out to dinner or things like that. I limit their opportunities to a significant extent. My hope with GLP1 is to be able to have a little more freedom. Based on the advice from people here I am going to choose Tirz as the first experiment. Thanks so much to all of you for your insight.

The biggest advantage of sticking to that style of diet so strictly, is that you do not need to restrict how much you eat too much or maybe even at all, so long as it is low enough in calorific density it is nearly impossible to consume so much that you gain weight. So that when there are days or times when you are more hungry than average, you can eat more without it causing more hunger later or adding in too many extra calories, but it only works if you exclude the rich / high calorie foods from the equation. And it does mess with social aspects of eating.

I got to 65kg in 2013/4 and managed to get back up to 145kg by 2022, and the main difference is taking this factor into account more, plus of course the GLP's make sustaining it long term easier. At this point for me at least the safest option is not to try adding in any high calorie foods.

 

[derekmarc]

When people say Reta stops food noise, does that noise mean things like intrusive thoughts of binging and purging? I have a big problem with that. I understand it’s an eating disorder but would Reta stop it?

 

[MrZardoz]

F rom what I've experienced -( I can mainly only speak to Tirzepatide) - which does stop the food noise for certain. And it happens pretty fast, and is both oddly subtle in how it manifests as well as, once you have the mental distance and go through a couple of days to note it, you'll probably spot that 'something' is kind of 'missing.'

A nd its replaced by (courtesy of Tirz) a certain state of 'calmness' - about worrying about food, in all the different ways it manifests - which seems to be what people who aren't afflicted by this literal disease called 'Obesity' get to have all of their lives.

B ut us people who've been struggling with this disease haven't been as lucky..

E nter the GLP-1's as the method to finally achieve some genuine parity..

(my 2 cents worth)

 

[ThatNextGril]

A nd its replaced by (courtesy of Tirz) a certain state of 'calmness' - about worrying about food, in all the different ways it manifests - which seems to be what people who aren't afflicted by this literal disease called 'Obesity' get to have all of their lives.

That's a good way of stating it. Pre-tirz if I was out all day and especially traveling (airports, long drives in rental cars, days of meetings in places that might not bring in meals, etc) I would worry more about what travel friendly snacks or food I could pack than the actual transport itself. I was always worried about being without steady food and getting low blood sugar and hangry. Since the tirz regulates the blood sugar and it removes the anxiety of my next meal, now when I travel, I'm fine knowing I'll eat eventually when the opportunity arises and move on. To me, identifying that thing called food noise was the biggest revelation of my life, and knowing it can be mastered the biggest change in it.

 

[ochoseis]

That's a good way of stating it. Pre-tirz if I was out all day and especially traveling (airports, long drives in rental cars, days of meetings in places that might not bring in meals, etc) I would worry more about what travel friendly snacks or food I could pack than the actual transport itself. I was always worried about being without steady food and getting low blood sugar and hangry. Since the tirz regulates the blood sugar and it removes the anxiety of my next meal, now when I travel, I'm fine knowing I'll eat eventually when the opportunity arises and move on. To me, identifying that thing called food noise was the biggest revelation of my life, and knowing it can be mastered the biggest change in it.

Oh man this was so me. I used to hate traveling, or even just going out for the day because... food. What kind of food. When we were going to eat the food. Would it be new food? Would it be enough food? Would I be able to choose something else if I didn't like the food?

Like I would get so stressed out over future food that I couldn't even enjoy the trip, and then as I was actively eating the food I'd stressed over I'd start stressing over what I'd eat when we got back home.

 

[BNLFL]

When people say Reta stops food noise, does that noise mean things like intrusive thoughts of binging and purging? I have a big problem with that. I understand it’s an eating disorder but would Reta stop it?

Well, it works for me. I have zero desire for any sweets, cookies and so on. Small portions get me full. Only time I actually get an appetite is today, Thursday. That's because pin day is Fridays.