两周过去了,没有看到任何进展。

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deleted.user.16 said:
Every time someone says they're not losing weight, a bunch of people show up to tell them they need to be eating more. More meals, more carbs, more everything. Makes absolutely no damn sense.

I don't mean to be abrasive but like, that's just not know anything works. Try eating more salad, more soup, more vegetables, more exercise, and fewer calories. It's ok to skip meals, it will not kill you. You don't have to if you don't want to, but for a healthy overweight adult it's not gonna cause any harm. Forcing yourself to eat three meals a day when you don't feel like it just defies all logic.
I wasn’t advising to eat more of anything but protein. And meeting protein when not hungry prevents muscle and hair loss, among other things. I lost most of my weight when I had absolutely no appetite and forced myself to drink 3 protein shakes daily to meet my protein needs. After that, I didn’t care. Malnutrition is real and it’s not fun, so starving yourself because you aren’t feeling hungry is very different from making sure you meet some basic nutritional goals.
 
cheaperseeker said:
You absolutely do need to eat a certain amount of calories to lose weight and to stay healthy.

Some key points from the article below (there are also many other articles and studies from credible sources that say the same things):

Extremely low-calorie diets trigger metabolic adaptation, forcing the body to slow its metabolism and conserve energy, which causes a weight-loss plateau. Additionally, this can lead to muscle loss, severe fatigue, increased cravings, and hormonal imbalances, making it harder to sustain long-term weight loss.~

Why Eating Too Little Can Stall Weight Loss

Eating too little doesn’t speed up fat loss but it slows it down. Your metabolism needs energy to function well, and nourishment is the key to sustainable progress. Check out more information in this article.

www.weightkidneycare.com
There is no consensus in the medical community that three meals a day is required for everyone, especially for already overweight individuals. Just as you can find doctors that says you must eat three meals a day, I can also find other doctors that says skipping meals can give you a long list of health benefits.

Doctor Recommends Intermittent Fasting

Angela Fitch, MD, associate director of the Mass General Weight Center, discusses intermittent fasting and how it can help patients lose weight.

giving.massgeneral.org

6 Tips for Healthy Fasting

Fasting is common for certain religious observances and eating styles. Our expert explains how being prepared, drinking water, limiting exercise and planning for medications can help you stay healthy during your fast.

health.clevelandclinic.org

I just don't think telling someone plateauing to eat more is good advice.

And Amos, I am sorry to hear about your depression and am glad you are doing better now. I have also lost half my hair at one point in my life because of a major stressful event. But in that same period I gained 20 pounds from overeating. There have been other times when I ate an extremely restricted diet for months and lost no hair whatsoever. Isn't it possible that stress is what causes the hair loss? That's not to say that it's impossible to get hair loss from undereating. Hair loss is one of the common side effects of anorexia. But that usually happens to people at a 12, 13 BMI. If someone is very overweight and they eat, say, 1200 calories in a day split into one or two meals, they will be fine. Eating more for no reason is counterproductive.
 
deleted.user.16 said:
There is no consensus in the medical community that three meals a day is required for everyone, especially for already overweight individuals. Just as you can find doctors that says you must eat three meals a day, I can also find other doctors that says skipping meals can give you a long list of health benefits.

Doctor Recommends Intermittent Fasting

Angela Fitch, MD, associate director of the Mass General Weight Center, discusses intermittent fasting and how it can help patients lose weight.

giving.massgeneral.org

6 Tips for Healthy Fasting

Fasting is common for certain religious observances and eating styles. Our expert explains how being prepared, drinking water, limiting exercise and planning for medications can help you stay healthy during your fast.

health.clevelandclinic.org

I just don't think telling someone plateauing to eat more is good advice.

And Amos, I am sorry to hear about your depression and am glad you are doing better now. I have also lost half my hair at one point in my life because of a major stressful event. But in that same period I gained 20 pounds from overeating. There have been other times when I ate an extremely restricted diet for months and lost no hair whatsoever. Isn't it possible that stress is what causes the hair loss? That's not to say that it's impossible to get hair loss from undereating. Hair loss is one of the common side effects of anorexia. But that usually happens to people at a 12, 13 BMI. If someone is very overweight and they eat, say, 1200 calories in a day split into one or two meals, they will be fine. Eating more for no reason is counterproductive.
I see where you're coming from. I think stress played a huge role in my hair loss, but losing so much weight in such a short amount of time via the unintentional starvation definitely set me up for vitamin deficiencies that I'm sure also contributed. It was a bit of a storm where everything just compounded and my hair was one of the outward signs of how much damage my body was taking. I recall when/if I did eat at that time it was like a poptart or icecream. I stopped eating family meals etc so nothing good was going into me when I did eat. Bad news all around.
 
After 19 lbs of weight loss in 9 weeks, 2 weeks of no change is totally normal and should just be ignored. Weight normally fluctuates a kilo or 2 up and down with fluid balance, and initial weight loss often has up to 10 lbs of weight loss due to fluid loss as you use up stored liver glycogen and then you body gets rid of all the water that was stuck to the glycogen molecules. After a while there is some readjustment of fluid balance which is most likely what is happening now.

Assuming the number of calories you are eating per day has not changed over that 2 weeks, then you are almost certainly still losing fat, regardless of what the scales say. True plateaus from GLP drugs are usually about a year after starting not 9 weeks. And reduction in energy expenditure from weight loss is not a major issue at less than 10% change. You can try measuring waist circumference if you want to see evidence of weight loss but it is not super accurate as how tight the measuring tape is makes a few cm difference. But if calorie intake was causing weight loss and that has not changed, then the results will show on the scales eventually.

Whether you should increase doses at this point depends mainly on what side effects you are getting, and how much weight you want to lose. The more severe the obesity and the longer it has been an issue, the stronger the reasons for increasing doses towards 15mg, as well as if there are health problems from obesity, and overall cardiovascular risk. Do not have enough info to guess all I can see is start weight at 207lbs but no age or height or associated health issues.
 
deleted.user.16 said:
There is no consensus in the medical community that three meals a day is required for everyone, especially for already overweight individuals. Just as you can find doctors that says you must eat three meals a day, I can also find other doctors that says skipping meals can give you a long list of health benefits.
The post you're responding to wasn't talking about three meals a day. It was simply saying that not eating enough stalls weight loss and causes other health problems. I never said that everyone must eat 3 meals a day. That was simply a suggestion for this individual.

deleted.user.16 said:
If someone is very overweight and they eat, say, 1200 calories in a day split into one or two meals, they will be fine. Eating more for no reason is counterproductive.
So you agree that people should eat a minimum number of calories, your example being 1200?
 
cheaperseeker said:
So you agree that people should eat a minimum number of calories, your example being 1200?
No, not necessarily. I'm currently eating between 50 and 700 a day (with rest periods where I'm eating 1000-1200) hopefully for the next 2-3 months. I've even done 200-400 calorie diets before for periods of around 2 months with no negative effects (in fact skin, hair, energy, and all health markers improved once you get past the first few weeks of energy slog). Not that I'd recommend this to someone online because you never know if they have some rare preexisting condition that might make this dangerous for them. This is just to say skipping a meal or two occasionally won't kill you.

I would like to see some evidence that not eating enough stalls weight loss. Not some organization or a particular doctor's personal suggestions, an actual study that compares one group eating, say, 1200 calories a day and another group eating 700 calories a day that shows the 700 calorie group loses less weight once this theoretical "scarcity mode" activates. I think an extraordinary claim like that would need extraordinary evidence to back it up and I don't think I've ever seen any.
 
deleted.user.16 said:
This is just to say skipping a meal or two occasionally won't kill you.
Nobody said it would. OP stated she fasts most of the day, struggles with energy, and "Usually my first meal is at dinner and a snack before bed. Sometimes a snack in the late morning. I've been eating mainly salmon or chicken everyday." That goes beyond skipping a meal or two occasionally.

deleted.user.16 said:
I would like to see some evidence that not eating enough stalls weight loss. Not some organization or a particular doctor's personal suggestions, an actual study that compares one group eating, say, 1200 calories a day and another group eating 700 calories a day that shows the 700 calorie group loses less weight once this theoretical "scarcity mode" activates. I think an extraordinary claim like that would need extraordinary evidence to back it up and I don't think I've ever seen any.
I can't dictate how the studies were carried out, but the first one is pretty pretty close to what you specified. Please note that most of them refer to "adaptive thermogenesis", rather than the layman's term, "scarcity mode".

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S000291652204494X#:~:text=Pages%20167%2D172-,Controlled%20trial%20of%20the%20metabolic%20effects%20of%20a%20very%2Dlow,after%20consumption%20of%20a%20VLCD.

Adaptive thermogenesis driving catch-up fat during weight regain: a role for skeletal muscle hypothyroidism and a risk for sarcopenic obesity - PMC

Across the spectrum of weight regain, ranging from cachexia rehabilitation and catch-up growth to obesity relapse, the recovery rate of body fat is often disproportionate relative to lean tissue recovery. Such preferential ‘catch-up fat’ is in part ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Impact of calorie restriction on energy metabolism in humans - PMC

Calorie restriction (CR) is the most potent, non-pharmacological intervention to support metabolic health. The effects of calorie restriction exceed weight loss. Consistent throughout many studies, calorie restriction induces a reduction in energy ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

https://psychiatry.duke.edu/blog/starvation-experiment

(^^This one details another well-known, and often referred-to, study which I couldn't locate the original report of)

[Edited to remove links that I accidentally pasted twice]
 
cheaperseeker said:
Nobody said it would. OP stated she fasts most of the day, struggles with energy, and "Usually my first meal is at dinner and a snack before bed. Sometimes a snack in the late morning. I've been eating mainly salmon or chicken everyday." That goes beyond skipping a meal or two occasionally.

I can't dictate how the studies were carried out, but the first one is pretty pretty close to what you specified. Please note that most of them refer to "adaptive thermogenesis", rather than the layman's term, "scarcity mode".

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S000291652204494X#:~:text=Pages%20167%2D172-,Controlled%20trial%20of%20the%20metabolic%20effects%20of%20a%20very%2Dlow,after%20consumption%20of%20a%20VLCD.

Adaptive thermogenesis driving catch-up fat during weight regain: a role for skeletal muscle hypothyroidism and a risk for sarcopenic obesity - PMC

Across the spectrum of weight regain, ranging from cachexia rehabilitation and catch-up growth to obesity relapse, the recovery rate of body fat is often disproportionate relative to lean tissue recovery. Such preferential ‘catch-up fat’ is in part ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Impact of calorie restriction on energy metabolism in humans - PMC

Calorie restriction (CR) is the most potent, non-pharmacological intervention to support metabolic health. The effects of calorie restriction exceed weight loss. Consistent throughout many studies, calorie restriction induces a reduction in energy ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

https://psychiatry.duke.edu/blog/starvation-experiment

(^^This one details another well-known, and often referred-to, study which I couldn't locate the original report of)

[Edited to remove links that I accidentally pasted twice]
Okay. From your first link:

While it says that in the first few weeks the low calorie diet people were burning less energy, the fourth sentence in the abstract is " The REE [resting energy expenditure] of the VLCD [very low calorie diet] patients increased during 12 subsequent weeks of realimentation such that differences in REE between the two groups were not statistically significant at week 24. There were no significant differences between the groups in pre- to posttreatment changes in REE [resting energy expenditure] normalized to FFM [fat-free mass]. "

Doesn't that run counter to your point? Can't read past the abstract because paywalled.

On your second link:

I am familiar with the Biggest Loser study mentioned in that study as having caused adaptive thermogenesis. Those people were eating 1200 calories a day, not fasting though. Maybe I am reading it wrong, but article seems to show that all weight loss causes adaptive thermogenesis, not that extreme diets cause it?

From your third link:

"Furthermore, a recent study showed that ADF [alternate day fasting] for 4 weeks did not affect RMR [resting metabolic rate], although the intervention led to reductions in energy intake (−37%) and body weight (−5%) (Stekovic et al., 2019). Similar findings have been made for the comparison between continuous CR and CR implemented every other week (Byrne et al., 2018). While the intermittent fasting approach achieved more pronounced weight loss, RMR declined less, after adjustment for changes in body mass and the mechanism for this difference is unexplored."

It basically says all calorie restriction diets caused metabolic adaptation, but the ones that involve fasting (intermittent and alternate day fasting) caused the least decline in resting metabolic rate. So that also runs counter to your point.

From your fourth link about the Minnesota Starvation experiment, yes those people sound like they were having a terrible time. But they were eating 1570 calories a day, so that is moderate calorie restriction and not fasting or extreme calorie restriction. Also the participants started at normal weight (non-obese) so I'm not sure the results of putting already normal weight people on a diet is super applicable to overweight people.

I didn't read through all your links in detail as that would probably take me days, but from a quick skim, they all seem to say that calorie restriction and fat loss in general causes adaptive thermogenesis? Not specifically that extremely low calorie diets cause it and moderately restricting calories doesn't cause it?
 
好吧,你说得对。你永远找不到一份研究报告,上面会完全按照你想要的措辞和顺序排列。

你也没拿出你要求我的东西:证明长期饮食不足 不会 导致减肥停滞的证据——“不是某个机构或某个医生的个人建议,而是一项真正的研究”。

我已经浪费了太多时间在这种循环论证上,我不想再跟你纠缠了。
 
代谢适应减重是真实存在的,而且是减重后限制体重进一步下降以及增加体重反弹风险的重要因素。就我个人而言,我的能量消耗从最初的145公斤下降到75公斤,期间每天摄入约1600千卡,最初每月减重6公斤,但12到14个月后,即使卡路里摄入量没有变化,每月减重也降至0公斤。我

不确定每天摄入多少卡路里真的会对此产生很大影响,似乎主要取决于减掉的总体重以及低卡路里摄入的时间长短。我的体重似乎减到90公斤左右(也就是减掉55公斤,大约9个月后)才开始减缓减重速度。每个人的情况可能不同,但卡路里摄入量在减重初期并不是什么重要因素,它只在后期才会显现出来。
 
cheaperseeker said:
好吧,你说得对。你永远找不到一份研究报告,上面会完全按照你想要的措辞和顺序排列。

你也没拿出你要求我的东西:证明长期饮食不足 不会 导致减肥停滞的证据——“不是某个机构或某个医生的个人建议,而是一项真正的研究”。

我已经浪费了太多时间在这种循环论证上,我不想再跟你纠缠了。
我从来都不认为长期少吃不摄入食物 不会 导致减肥停滞。我只是认为它不会比适度限制卡路里摄入更容易导致减肥停滞。而且,所有支持我观点的证据你都已经提供了。

你抛出一堆你根本没看过的随机研究,我出于好意花时间和精力去阅读了它们(尽管你显然没看),找到了与本次讨论相关的部分并进行了总结,结果发现这些研究证明你是错的。现在,你非但没有根据提供的证据改变你的想法,反而更加坚持你(错误的)立场,得意洋洋地回复了一句就走了。

我一点也不惊讶。每次我要求你提供这个论点的证据时,对话都是这样进行的。
 
更新:自从几天前发帖以来,体重减轻了4磅。看来我的身体在减掉更多体重之前需要重新调整一下。感谢大家提供的信息和建议!

最近关于橙色瓶盖T30的内分泌干扰物问题让我怀疑我买的是不是那一批。我是二月中旬从一个经销商(Tydes)那里买的。它的确是橙色瓶盖的。它让我严重腹泻和打嗝,但因为这是潜在的副作用之一,所以我没太在意。但是自从换成另一种T60之后,我没有任何副作用,甚至一度以为它没起作用或者剂量不对,尽管实际上剂量是对的。我怀疑我之前是不是买到了内分泌干扰物比较多的那瓶,所以副作用才这么严重。我永远也不会知道答案,但这确实值得思考。
 
Patience. This is a marathon, not a sprint. You’ll have stretches with no change. Your body needs to adjust all the things that are going on inside. You just lost 19 lbs. The scale doesn’t tell the whole story.
 
lessthanhalf said:
After 19 lbs of weight loss in 9 weeks, 2 weeks of no change is totally normal and should just be ignored. Weight normally fluctuates a kilo or 2 up and down with fluid balance, and initial weight loss often has up to 10 lbs of weight loss due to fluid loss as you use up stored liver glycogen and then you body gets rid of all the water that was stuck to the glycogen molecules. After a while there is some readjustment of fluid balance which is most likely what is happening now.

Assuming the number of calories you are eating per day has not changed over that 2 weeks, then you are almost certainly still losing fat, regardless of what the scales say. True plateaus from GLP drugs are usually about a year after starting not 9 weeks. And reduction in energy expenditure from weight loss is not a major issue at less than 10% change. You can try measuring waist circumference if you want to see evidence of weight loss but it is not super accurate as how tight the measuring tape is makes a few cm difference. But if calorie intake was causing weight loss and that has not changed, then the results will show on the scales eventually.

Whether you should increase doses at this point depends mainly on what side effects you are getting, and how much weight you want to lose. The more severe the obesity and the longer it has been an issue, the stronger the reasons for increasing doses towards 15mg, as well as if there are health problems from obesity, and overall cardiovascular risk. Do not have enough info to guess all I can see is start weight at 207lbs but no age or height or associated health issues.
I don't know how I never saw your response! Glad I did now though.

What you said makes sense and is affirming.

For more info, I am 5'7" and have an athletic but overweight build. My definition of overweight is pretty harsh towards myself though. In the 16 days since I posted this, I have lost more weight so I think you were spot on in what you said.

SW 207 CW 181 Height 5'7"

Starting waist circumference I'm not sure of but at least 36-38 inches. After I hit about 195 (when I was actively gaining) I had constant bloating issues that didn't resolve until about 10 days on tirz the bloat disappeared. Current waist is 32.5 inches. I have auto immune diseases that create extra chronic fatigue and I have faulty collagen. Anyways, in total I'm down 25 lbs in a bit over 11 weeks. I plan to stay at 7.5mg indefinitely since it's definitely effective.

My weight gain was quite rapid. I'd been in the low 180s until spring of last year and I started eating whatever made me feel good and steadily gained 25+ lbs in less than a year. But I haven't been a 'healthy weight' aka no extra fluff since before I had kids 12 years ago.
 
cheaperseeker said:
You absolutely do need to eat a certain amount of calories to lose weight and to stay healthy.

Some key points from the article below (there are also many other articles and studies from credible sources that say the same things):

Extremely low-calorie diets trigger metabolic adaptation, forcing the body to slow its metabolism and conserve energy, which causes a weight-loss plateau. Additionally, this can lead to muscle loss, severe fatigue, increased cravings, and hormonal imbalances, making it harder to sustain long-term weight loss.~

Why Eating Too Little Can Stall Weight Loss

Eating too little doesn’t speed up fat loss but it slows it down. Your metabolism needs energy to function well, and nourishment is the key to sustainable progress. Check out more information in this article.

www.weightkidneycare.com
I do not believe there is credible science to support the idea that a lower calorie deficit can cause more weight loss. There have been a lot of studies done over decades that included measurements of actual energy expenditure, and in general the numbers do always add up.

I think the main reason CICO can look like it is not making sense is not adequately accounting for alterations in energy expenditure secondary to weight loss, and people being terribly inaccurate at calorie counting. So it is possible to not lose weight on fairly low daily calorie intake in that post weight loss state ( that may last forever ) , but I have seen no evidence that increasing intake will cause weight loss in that state.

A severe calorie deficit causing very rapid weight loss can definitely cause problems. The most obvious ones being faintness, actual fainting, tiredness, exhaustion, electrolyte imbalances, and higher rates of gallstones. So losing weight super fast can have negative health consequences.

When weight is lost energy expenditure drops for 3 reasons , one is that the no longer there fat and lean tissue no longer consumes any calories, and this may be a large effect if a lot of weight is lost. The second reason is it takes less energy to move a body that weighs less, not sure how significant this is in reality, but logically it must happen . The third is reduced energy expenditure from the body's attempt to conserve energy and or fat stores. I believe that the metabolic adaptation to low calorie input is more dependent on time, and total weight lost , rather than how low the calorie intake is.

When I started at 145 kg , without GLP drugs at that point, I ate 1600-1800 kcal per day, was very inactive, and lost 6kg per month consistently until I got to about 90 kg so in about 9 months or so, weight loss then slowed slowly but surely to zero over the next several months with no change in calorie intake and stopped at 75 kg , where it stayed for a year or so, until I started taking ozempic, and it still stayed there for another year, all with the same calorie intake.

This enormous effect on energy expenditure did not require extreme calorie deficits, occurring at a calorie intake exactly the same as what was required to maintain the weight loss.

Maintaining weight loss is extremely difficult, the low energy expenditure combined with the increased hunger from massive weight loss, made me pretty hungry most of the time despite a diet designed to minimise hunger - very high protein 40-50% of calories, low calorific density , total avoidance of high calorific density / highly rewarding / high glycaemic index foods. This is the exact problem that makes long term weight loss nearly impossible, but it does not require extra low calorie intake to get there, just weight loss , and possibly time of low calorie input. Thankfully GLP drugs help with hunger so hopefully maintaining that weight loss will be possible
 
amosmylove said:
I don't know how I never saw your response! Glad I did now though.

What you said makes sense and is affirming.

For more info, I am 5'7" and have an athletic but overweight build. My definition of overweight is pretty harsh towards myself though. In the 16 days since I posted this, I have lost more weight so I think you were spot on in what you said.

SW 207 CW 181 Height 5'7"

Starting waist circumference I'm not sure of but at least 36-38 inches. After I hit about 195 (when I was actively gaining) I had constant bloating issues that didn't resolve until about 10 days on tirz the bloat disappeared. Current waist is 32.5 inches. I have auto immune diseases that create extra chronic fatigue and I have faulty collagen. Anyways, in total I'm down 25 lbs in a bit over 11 weeks. I plan to stay at 7.5mg indefinitely since it's definitely effective.

My weight gain was quite rapid. I'd been in the low 180s until spring of last year and I started eating whatever made me feel good and steadily gained 25+ lbs in less than a year. But I haven't been a 'healthy weight' aka no extra fluff since before I had kids 12 years ago.
Glad my ( hopefully educated ) guesses about what was going on were correct.
 
deleted.user.16 said:
I would like to see some evidence that not eating enough stalls weight loss. Not some organization or a particular doctor's personal suggestions, an actual study that compares one group eating, say, 1200 calories a day and another group eating 700 calories a day that shows the 700 calorie group loses less weight once this theoretical "scarcity mode" activates. I think an extraordinary claim like that would need extraordinary evidence to back it up and I don't think I've ever seen any.
I appreciate your opinion on a lot of things and you are definitely a value to the community here, so I'm definitly not trying to slam you, but I think you are too focused on seeing for some kind of double blind control study (obviously the gold standard) that probably would not be ethical under the circumstances. Its the same thing for muscle loss. For instance, you are not going to test a 500 calorie deficit vs a 1500 calorie deficit to determine which group will lose more muscle becuse we have strong evidence already that the 1500 calorie deficit group would do worse. You would be knowingly harming the group that you were putting at the larger deficit. We have seen that people rapidly losing weight in GLPs have lost up to 40% of the weight from muscle. We know that people at smaller deficits don't lose that much muscle. The evidence is strong even if it is not measured in an independent study.

So i understand your frustration at not having gold standard research but I think that there is strong evidence that in general, bigger deficits are not better. You may have something that works well for you, but I don't think it would apply to most people.
 
amosmylove said:
Hey all. I'm relatively new to GLP1s. I've been on grey Tirz for 9 weeks. I just took my 2nd dose of 7.5mg yesterday. Started 9 weeks ago at 2.5mg. I lost 19lbs in the first 7 weeks, and my side effects were tolerable. Mainly burps and diarrhea as the worst of it. However,

I haven't lost weight or even changed weight in about 2 weeks. I thought once I got up to 7.5mg I'd really start seeing change. I've also noticed more hunger amd less satiety when eating the last two weeks.

The most likely culprit seems that when I bumped to 7.5 I also started a new vial of 60mg Tirz. I got them both from the same website, but my first vial was a 30mg vial. I'm wondering if the 60mg vial is less potent, or perhaps the first vial had more endotoxins which was giving me more bowel trouble? I've not had any stomach/burping/loose stool issues on this new vial.

I guess I'm wondering what you would do in my shoes. Bump up my dose or take a midweek dose to try to start something?

I was consistently loosing about 2.5lbs a week and now nothing for over 2 weeks. I haven't been eating poorly or excessively by anymeans. Still at a calorie deficit and I fast for mosy of the day. I have been rather slothful. Definitely struggling with energy which could be attributed to the weightloss from previous months.

Starting weifht 207, current weight 189.

I did just finish a BPC/TB stack cycle past week. Also a DSIP cycle.

Is this normal to not have changes or is it a bum vial?
I’d take about two days eating above maintainance to ensure you’re not experiencing metabolic adaptation!
 
5byfive said:
我很欣赏你对很多事情的看法,你对这个社区来说绝对是宝贵的财富,所以我绝对不是想批评你,但我认为你过于执着于寻找某种双盲对照研究(这显然是黄金标准),而这种研究在目前的情况下可能并不符合伦理。肌肉流失也是如此。例如,你不会去测试500卡路里热量缺口和1500卡路里热量缺口哪个组会损失更多肌肉,因为我们已经有强有力的证据表明,热量缺口1500卡路里的组肌肉流失更严重。你这样做是在明知热量缺口更大却仍然伤害那组人。我们已经看到,在GLP(健康生活方式干预)中快速减肥的人,最多会损失40%的体重,而这些损失都是肌肉。我们知道,热量缺口较小的人不会损失那么多肌肉。即使没有独立研究的验证,这些证据也很有力。

所以我理解你对缺乏黄金标准研究的沮丧,但我认为有强有力的证据表明,一般来说,热量缺口越大并非越好。你的方法或许对你很有效,但我认为它并不适用于大多数人。
哎呀,这老帖子和争论又冒出来了。接下来几天我比较忙,不过打算深入研究一下(好吧,也许只是中等程度的研究),看看能不能从这极其稀少的资料中挖掘出点什么。这些信息对我自己制定饮食计划也很有帮助。哈哈,一周后谁提醒我一下。
 
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