Dihexa for a special research subject

[Hambocommando]

I hate to beat a dead horse topic, but I'm looking into Dihexa for a RS that has anoxic brain injury. RS had lymphoma, went in for surgery, died twice on the table and spent a few months in a coma. RS now has pretty severe short term memory loss, difficulty with independent thought, and loss of fine motor skills. We've reached the point where doctors are content to just leave RS's treatment as it currently is and not try anything novel. They weren't even willing to try hyperbaric treatments because it was new and not proven and of course, insurance wouldn't cover it. I can't shake the feeling they would try more if it were their own family member. Given Dihexa and it's derivative pro-drug incarnations have been shown to help with neuroplasticity and some memory enhancement, I'm seriously considering it for RS. But I have some concerns.

A lot of people talk about the possibility of angiogenesis and prior cancers. Are there any actual studies I should review about this effect? Not necessarily just on Dihexa, but on any of the angiogenesis type peptides. RS won't be able to notice any differences themselves and convey them, so it would all be observed by others. We've delayed GLP1 treatment for similar reasons. Imagine feeling horrible side effects but not knowing that they're side effects because you don't know you're taking medications.

Also, if Dihexa is not a bad idea, any breadcrumb trail sources for oral versions would be appreciated.

 

[Chili777]

I'm so sorry you are going through this. How tragic and that is a very difficult decision. Based on an AI analysis by Gemini, there is a real risk of waking up any dormant cancer and dihexa does have that concern. Also, all studies have been conducted on rats and there are no human studies. It's an emerging peptide. A couple of those studies have been retracted. Per Gemini:

The HGF/c-Met Connection (The Primary Risk)

The biggest concern with Dihexa is its mechanism of action. It works by activating the HGF/c-Met pathway (Hepatocyte Growth Factor).

In the brain: This pathway promotes synaptogenesis—the formation of new connections between neurons—which is why it is studied for "chemo-brain" or Alzheimer's.

In cancer: The c-Met receptor is frequently overexpressed in many cancers, including certain types of lymphoma. When this pathway is activated, it can promote cell survival, migration, and tumor growth.

The Conflict: Taking a drug that potently activates a growth pathway could theoretically "wake up" dormant cancer cells or encourage a recurrence.

Important Note

You should not start Dihexa without consulting your oncologist. Because of your history with lymphoma, any substance that stimulates growth pathways (HGF/c-Met) must be cleared by a specialist who understands your specific type of lymphoma and your current status (remission vs. active treatment).

This is a link to an overview of dihexa and contains links to several studies for your review:

https://pep-pedia.org/peptides/dihexa

There are vendors that list this peptide.

 

[lessthanhalf]

The first question that springs to my mind is given that the patient has a brain injury, can they meaningfully consent to treatment, as in understand the possible risk/benefit equation of a peptide that is not officially approved for use in humans?

Even if you have legal rights to make treatment decisions on their behalf, officially or unofficially by being a close family member, using it without real consent would expose you to risks legally if anything went wrong due to the peptide or if anything happened that was thought to be due to the peptide.

 

[Hambocommando]

The first question that springs to my mind is given that the patient has a brain injury, can they meaningfully consent to treatment, as in understand the possible risk/benefit equation of a peptide that is not officially approved for use in humans?

Even if you have legal rights to make treatment decisions on their behalf, officially or unofficially by being a close family member, using it without real consent would expose you to risks legally if anything went wrong due to the peptide or if anything happened that was thought to be due to the peptide.

I'm not immune to having that ethical argument with myself as well. That's why I'm asking questions rather than plowing ahead. If I decide to try the medication with him, I'm going to approach the topic with him as well as his legal guardian repeatedly until he can verify at a later time that we've had the conversation and he's okay with it. He's not an idiot. He's smart! Used to be an expert in his field. He just ...has no short term memory. I'm also not expecting miracles, but if anything makes his life easier, I'm going to investigate it.

 

[Hambocommando]

I'm so sorry you are going through this. How tragic and that is a very difficult decision. Based on an AI analysis by Gemini, there is a real risk of waking up any dormant cancer and dihexa does have that concern. Also, all studies have been conducted on rats and there are no human studies. It's an emerging peptide. A couple of those studies have been retracted. Per Gemini:

The HGF/c-Met Connection (The Primary Risk)

The biggest concern with Dihexa is its mechanism of action. It works by activating the HGF/c-Met pathway (Hepatocyte Growth Factor).

In the brain: This pathway promotes synaptogenesis—the formation of new connections between neurons—which is why it is studied for "chemo-brain" or Alzheimer's.

In cancer: The c-Met receptor is frequently overexpressed in many cancers, including certain types of lymphoma. When this pathway is activated, it can promote cell survival, migration, and tumor growth.

The Conflict: Taking a drug that potently activates a growth pathway could theoretically "wake up" dormant cancer cells or encourage a recurrence.

Important Note

You should not start Dihexa without consulting your oncologist. Because of your history with lymphoma, any substance that stimulates growth pathways (HGF/c-Met) must be cleared by a specialist who understands your specific type of lymphoma and your current status (remission vs. active treatment).

This is a link to an overview of dihexa and contains links to several studies for your review:

https://pep-pedia.org/peptides/dihexa

There are vendors that list this peptide.

Thanks Chili! I'll read those. I also read about Fosgonimeton, which is a drug derived from the Dihexa molecule and the human trials involved in it. They showed mild improvement, but the trials were discontinued for various reasons including smaller test subject pools than expected, the placebo groups showing improvement as well, things like that. That's what I meant by human trials. And the return of cancer is a risk that I take very seriously in this case. IF I were the RS? Boy howdy I'd jump in both feet first.

 

[lessthanhalf]

That post was more along the lines of just making sure you had considered that aspect of it.

 

[Hambocommando]

That post was more along the lines of just making sure you had considered that aspect of it.

I really appreciate it. I'm new. You don't know me. Thanks for caring enough to make the post It is definitely something to think about. It's a bitch of a situation to be in. I'm not currently his legal guardian, but in the future I will be. And the last thing I would want to do is treat him like a lab rat. At least, a nonconsenting lab rat. If he can't agree to the situation, I'm not going to proceed. And you helped me make up my mind on that matter.

 

[yrrdead]

I would take a look at the Russian neuropeps. I feel like they have a pretty good safety profile. Cerebrolysin and epitalon would be where I would start investigating.

 

[Chili777]

I would take a look at the Russian neuropeps. I feel like they have a pretty good safety profile. Cerebrolysin and epitalon would be where I would start investigating.

I thought about those, too. Cerebrolysin in particular, but I've already been waiting 6 weeks for my order. Also, it and the Russian peps are for optimizing existing neural networks. In my research, a standard protocol would be Epitalon followed by Cerebrolysin for that, but Dihexa is designed to rebuild damaged neural networks which it sounds like this RS needs. Dihexa is the big gun but comes with equal risks, based on the RS's history.

 

[cheaperseeker]

I would take a look at the Russian neuropeps. I feel like they have a pretty good safety profile. Cerebrolysin and epitalon would be where I would start investigating.

I was also going to suggest Cerebrolysin. OP can look into it at Cerebrolysin.com and this thread. According to cerebrolysin.com, "Cerebrolysin® is a multi-modal neuropeptide drug with a fast onset of action that helps to regain and maintain the independence of patients suffering from stroke, TBI, dementia and cognitive impairment." When they ask if you are a medical professional, you are. I'd also ask the doc about getting the RS into clinical trials.

 

[cheaperseeker]

I thought about those, too. Cerebrolysin in particular, but I've already been waiting 6 weeks for my order. Also, it and the Russian peps are for optimizing existing neural networks. In my research, a standard protocol would be Epitalon followed by Cerebrolysin for that, but Dihexa is designed to rebuild damaged neural networks which it sounds like this RS needs. Dihexa is the big gun but comes with equal risks, based on the RS's history.

I'm hopeful our cerebrolysin orders will arrive eventually Sounds like there's a big backlog due to the holiday recently.

I'm not sure that Epitalon would be my first choice here. I'm on my second cycle and haven't noticed much cognitive change, except for mildly improved mood. Cerebrolysin sounds more promising, at least based on the website's claims.

 

[Hambocommando]

I would take a look at the Russian neuropeps. I feel like they have a pretty good safety profile. Cerebrolysin and epitalon would be where I would start investigating.

I haven't looked into this one at all. I'll check it out. Thanks!

 

[cheaperseeker]

I hate to beat a dead horse topic, but I'm looking into Dihexa for a RS that has anoxic brain injury. RS had lymphoma, went in for surgery, died twice on the table and spent a few months in a coma. RS now has pretty severe short term memory loss, difficulty with independent thought, and loss of fine motor skills. We've reached the point where doctors are content to just leave RS's treatment as it currently is and not try anything novel. They weren't even willing to try hyperbaric treatments because it was new and not proven and of course, insurance wouldn't cover it. I can't shake the feeling they would try more if it were their own family member. Given Dihexa and it's derivative pro-drug incarnations have been shown to help with neuroplasticity and some memory enhancement, I'm seriously considering it for RS. But I have some concerns.

A lot of people talk about the possibility of angiogenesis and prior cancers. Are there any actual studies I should review about this effect? Not necessarily just on Dihexa, but on any of the angiogenesis type peptides. RS won't be able to notice any differences themselves and convey them, so it would all be observed by others. We've delayed GLP1 treatment for similar reasons. Imagine feeling horrible side effects but not knowing that they're side effects because you don't know you're taking medications.

Also, if Dihexa is not a bad idea, any breadcrumb trail sources for oral versions would be appreciated.

I'm sorry you and your RS are going through this. If it were my loved one, I would also be frustrated about the doctors wanting to give up looking for answers. See my responses above for my ideas.

How long ago was the surgery and coma? Does your RS eventually remember things that have been repeated frequently?

 

[Chili777]

I'm hopeful our cerebrolysin orders will arrive eventually Sounds like there's a big backlog due to the holiday recently.

I'm not sure that Epitalon would be my first choice here. I'm on my second cycle and haven't noticed much cognitive change, except for mildly improved mood. Cerebrolysin sounds more promising, at least based on the website's claims.

Yeah, I think it depends on your age and the amount of signalling pathway damage you have to feel the effects. I thought it helped me, but I don't think it's for severe damage like this, but I'm not a Russian doctor either.

I don't think it would be the place to start for this RS. Cerebrolysin would be a good option, as well as dihexa. I was just thinking of the wait time. I also think mine got snagged. We'll see.

Edit: Based on the guide, the recommended treatment is also 20-50 ml administered by IV daily for 14-21 days for stroke and/or cognitive impairment. I'm not sure how they'd manage that.

 

[Hambocommando]

I'm sorry you and your RS are going through this. If it were my loved one, I would also be frustrated about the doctors wanting to give up looking for answers. See my responses above for my ideas.

How long ago was the surgery and coma? Does your RS eventually remember things that have been repeated frequently?

It happened in 2020. It's been 6 years and he's had gradual improvement followed by periods of regression. Sometimes he will remember things that happened the day before, and sometimes he will ask you 6 times between 12:00pm and 12:30pm if he's eaten lunch. The brain is a mystery that I'm wary to mess with, but if there were something that might help, I'm going to look into it.

 

[yrrdead]

Yeah, I think it depends on your age and the amount of signalling pathway damage you have to feel the effects. I thought it helped me, but I don't think it's for severe damage like this, but I'm not a Russian doctor either.

I don't think it would be the place to start for this RS. Cerebrolysin would be a good option, as well as dihexa. I was just thinking of the wait time. I also think mine got snagged. We'll see.

Edit: Based on the guide, the recommended treatment is also 20-50 ml administered by IV daily for 14-21 days for stroke and/or cognitive impairment. I'm not sure how they'd manage that.

Anela of the ghk-cu fame has a thread talking about how epitalon improved her frontal lobe issues from a TBI with some eeg's. Plus you figure she isn't trying to bs anyone, at least that was the vibe I got.

 

[ronin365]

A few ideas that are off the beaten path:

Shrooms: Psilocybin is known for its neuroprotective and anti-inflammatory effects on the brain. There are some who believe anoxic brain injuries are related to neuroinflammation. Add to this that shrooms encourage neuroplasticity. This option is obviously pushing the envelope, but worth exploring. If you try this I suggest microdosing every two days for 30 days to avoid mind-altering/hallucinogenic effects.

Reta: It's more than a weight-loss peptide. It addresses inflammation, improves how the brain uses glucose, and is considered neuroprotective. Unless weight loss is needed, I suspect a maintenance/starting dose is all that is needed to see if it helps. If there are concerns about cancer, Reta has been shown in laboratory studies (mice) to starve tumor cells.

GHK-cu (which has been mentioned) and TB4 are both known for having positive effects on the brain for recovery and repair.

 

[Chili777]

Anela of the ghk-cu fame has a thread talking about how epitalon improved her frontal lobe issues from a TBI with some eeg's. Plus you figure she isn't trying to bs anyone, at least that was the vibe I got.

Yeah, her post on Reddit was the reason I researched it. We have similar issues. She runs it 10 days a month. I may do that at some point, after I get a baseline.