All right, i searched for freezing tirz, specifically the Jano response but...
- Thread starter Gr33dyOctopus
- Start date
- Status
Someone was asking about freezing recon on Read It, I forget which pep sub (I’m on a few). Pretty sure it was in regards to tirz, maybe the compounded tirzepatide area.
The vendor link they had stated -80C for reconned. I asked that OP how they were planning on getting to -80C and I didn’t get an answer.
surprised picachu
Jano seems to be putting interesting data behind storage and handling of peptides.
Or maybe not feel it?
Seems like this family of peptides is pretty robust. Not sure how that extends to other molecules. My bet is that it’ll be fine. HOWEVER im not a place yet where I’d pin it myself. I expect a full report!
The vendor link they had stated -80C for reconned. I asked that OP how they were planning on getting to -80C and I didn’t get an answer.
surprised picachuJano seems to be putting interesting data behind storage and handling of peptides.
deleted.user.18 said:
Or maybe not feel it?
Seems like this family of peptides is pretty robust. Not sure how that extends to other molecules. My bet is that it’ll be fine. HOWEVER im not a place yet where I’d pin it myself.
I expect a full report!
Mmmmm, I am also a member of r/retatrutide and a ton of guys freeze thiers with few ill effects. Also on r/tirzepatidecompounds, those fellas constantly freeze vials with 3 or 10 mo th BUDs in them. Lol, I just want the consensus of this board and its pretty much what I had already known.Foggy-Hollow said:Someone was asking about freezing recon on Read It, I forget which pep sub (I’m on a few). Pretty sure it was in regards to tirz, maybe the compounded tirzepatide area.
The vendor link they had stated -80C for reconned. I asked that OP how they were planning on getting to -80C and I didn’t get an answer.
Jano seems to be putting interesting data behind storage and handling of peptides.
Or maybe not feel it?
Seems like this family of peptides is pretty robust. Not sure how that extends to other molecules. My bet is that it’ll be fine. HOWEVER im not a place yet where I’d pin it myself.
Take lots and lots of notes. I know you’re excited… I thought I was taking reasonable notes until I realized I was becoming a pincushion in the two areas I liked to pin. 6 pokes per week, Body was asking to change things up. Got an ISR and could t remember fine details from a week ago, two weeks ago.
If you have a side effect you don’t like you’ll want to trace it back. Whether it’s ISR, puking, whatever.
If you have a side effect you don’t like you’ll want to trace it back. Whether it’s ISR, puking, whatever.
Good advice, im only pinning 2x per week now, but thats going to change very soon. Im teying to make sure that I dont fuck things up to badly. Anything that messes with my heartrate and blood sugar in particular. And I am excited! Haha most of my hobbies and interests along the way have fallen off as my weight has increasedFoggy-Hollow said:
Having not seen the test results yourself, and not being in the server to see related discussions, it would appear that what you’re relying on is rumor.deleted.user.18 said:
I’m also searching for some hard data on that same question, but meanwhile, I recommend that you freeze that BAC vial to keep it longer than its own 30day cycle. ETA but not lower than 4.6F, it’s melting point. (Any chemists think this is unreasonable?)Gr33dyOctopus said:
I know the instructions say to keep it in at room temp, but maybe that is a problem with condensation getting pushed into the vial? Also lab freezers are -20C, which is below 4.6F.
And additional good move is to minimize pushing extra air into the vial since oxygen degrades benzyl alcohol. Benzyl alcohol itself degrades over time with alkaline (high) pH, oxygen, and exposure to its ozidation product, benzaldehyde, is my understanding, of course keeping an eye out for data about that as well.
I added all this because I’m trying in my own head to figure out what happens to the benzyl alcohol after you froze the peptide/BAC solution, perhaps gently make sure the benzyl alchol redissolves and gets mixed back in also if you are going to keep it in the fridge after and are relying on its bacteriostatic property.
As always, anyone with a mechanism that contradicts any of what I’m thinking, please do bring it up
From Google GeminiLabcat said:
Recommended Storage
Unopened Vials: Store at room temperature, typically between 20 to 25°C (68 to 77°F), away from light, heat, and moisture.
Opened Vials: After opening and puncturing the vial, it should be refrigerated at 2–8°C (36–46°F) to help maintain the preservative's effectiveness and minimize contamination risk. It should be discarded 28 days after the first use, as the benzyl alcohol preservative loses potency over time.
Important Considerations:
Always check and follow the specific storage instructions provided by the manufacturer of the bacteriostatic water or the medication you are reconstituting.
Freezing water does not kill all bacteria; some can survive freezing temperatures. The 0.9% benzyl alcohol in bacteriostatic water works by inhibiting bacterial growth, not by killing existing bacteria
In addition: Hospira recommends storing their BAC at room temperature out of light. until opened and then refrigerate.
I think the first part for unopened vials is not for chemical stability, but practicality, so that the cost of cold storage doesn’t become more than the cost of the product.byefatlicia said:
And the second is so that the cold reduces bacterial replication, esp if the bacteria is less susceptible to benzyl alcohol. How good is it, I wondered… it’s -static so they din’t measure it the same way, but if you use 1% as a cleaner, it yuelds 3 log reduction in 5 minutes, so mildly suppressive, and affects some organisms less than others. I’m not aware that any medical office I’ve ever been in stores their BAC in the fridge (though I haven’t been in many, lol, I’m a curious sort when the staff if also friendly).
I’ll also note that even refrigerator temps do not slow down all bacterial growth, for instance Listeria thrives.
I’m not insisting anyone do this of course, just trying to pull apart the science from the practice. Also how can water cost $15/30ml lol. (Sterile water by itself is not much cheaper, either.)
Does anyone happen to know what pH lyophilized tirz will reconstitute at? Or what pH compounding pharmacies are using?
This was part of the Gemini quote. I guess I missed copying it.Labcat said:
"You should not freeze bacteriostatic water. Freezing can damage the solution and affect its efficacy or the stability of any medications mixed with it"
I'm not qualified to give answers as to the whys or chemistry. I only know what many have taught me was safest.
Gemini is an AI? Did it say where that quote comes from? I think a lot of us are here because what we were taught may not be as strongly supported as we’d believed. (Grey is bad, compounding is unsafe, you can’t mix and dose yourself, etc.)byefatlicia said:
Are you in the camp then of people who don’t freeze their peptide solution, and is that
because you recon with bacterioststic water which you don’t freeze? I just think there is a lot of evidence that things work that are not “supposed” to and I’m interested in sorting it out. (I understand not everyone is.)
I am in that camp. I tossed several bottles of Hospira Bac after accidentally freezing them. Again, I'm not that person who pretends to know why it's right. But others have made strong cases for what I adhere to.Labcat said:
It's really confusing to see folks arguing what I thought was gospel. I also welcome more dialog and more evidence. But for now, my rats don't wanna be guinea pigs.
Related thread: [archived internal link]
It’s gospel that we shouldn’t be injecting grey substances at all, so I’m equally curious about everything, trying to aort out science from rules that optimized other things, and trying to either find the reason something is being touted or reasons why it shoud not be. Great to have a place where discussions flourish in a contest of people also trying to maintain safe practices.,byefatlicia said:
Benzyl alcohol is a small molecule, and I’m curious as to whether it is enough to destabilize a peptide if you freeze to below it’s freezing point (have a thermometer in your fridge/freezer). I’ve seen data where only high concentration (2.2%) destabilized the peptide when you froze it. But also that was a very fragile protein, not like tirz is reputed to be.
One could just try it, or keep the freeze light, or one could reconstitute with water then freeze.
I’m super curious whether anyone has experience with a tirz or other peptide with 0.9% benzyl alcohol that they froze and used?
So is the consensus of this board to freeze or not freeze? It’s good to know that the reta guys freeze just fine.Gr33dyOctopus said:
In fact if you go to the Sigma-Aldritch (and related) sites, they generally instruct people to freeze delicate peptide solutions. (And some cool instructions for identifying which amino acids tend to destabilize in certain ways). It makes me think that the default is more stable than unstable, though some molecules do hate freezing.
Most here don't freeze after recon. But most here don't filter either (and neither do I anymore).
Of course, it often comes down to risk tolerance, which generally increases over time.
Of course, it often comes down to risk tolerance, which generally increases over time.
To me, the best argument for freezing (reconned or lyophilized) is sterility, rather than potency. Tirz will be potent for a very long time, no matter what.
I probably wouldn’t unless it was large vials supplying longer than a month or two. Which is def something I’d do.Calm Logic said:
Absolutely for sterility even with lyophilized. Once sterility is broken and bacteria multiply, they’re eating up those delicious peptides, I’d been wondering about chemical reactions leading to potency loss, there’s some tests supposedly floating around from people sending compounds for third party testing and finding much lower purity just a week after it was fine. Not really sure of details. Anyhow tirz seems stable unless maybe something went wrong in the compounding. I’d heard that theoretically broken peptides can cause other peptides to destabilize configuration and maybe even catalyze reactions?Calm Logic said:
- Status
