Reta 的开始 - 博客

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UnusualLLama said:
Side note - anyone find themselves drinking less coffee on reta? Maybe less caffeine in general? Because I'm definitely drinking less than I used to, which, for someone living in Sweden, is almost a hangable offence.
Yep. I completely ditched my coffee once on Reta. Just kept leaving the cups half filled and eventually gave up. But I do like the boost from caffeine so I found some tasty caffeine chews on amazon that I like. Pop one of those in the am and maybe a 2nd one around 2 pm, works a treat.
 
px1984 said:
Whats the target weight?
I'm not really targeting a set weight, more going off how I look. That being said, I'm really not wanting to go below 70kg so we'll see how it goes.
 
PineCone99 said:
Yep. I completely ditched my coffee once on Reta. Just kept leaving the cups half filled and eventually gave up. But I do like the boost from caffeine so I found some tasty caffeine chews on amazon that I like. Pop one of those in the am and maybe a 2nd one around 2 pm, works a treat.
The weird thing is, I haven't really been feeling the need to drink coffee. I still have a morning cup, but after that I'd usually have one late morning, post-lunch. Maybe late afternoon, just to keep the fire burning. But I haven't really felt like I needed that.
 
UnusualLLama said:
Muscle retention rant

Probably going to go on a bit here but this has been playing on my mind quite a bit over the last week or so, especially after I saw the trends from my withings scale showing consistently higher lean mass numbers and smaller fat numbers.

Taking that at face value, it means that I'm burning fat and building muscle. I definitely am burning fat, as for building muscle I'm uncertain, but what I feel more certain about is that I'm not losing muscle. And that's one of the things that I was concerned about with reta. I said it in my initial post, I want to get lean and retain as much muscle as possible, but everywhere you read reta is portrayed as some muscle eating compound that you could shoot into the Hulk to change him back into Bruce Bana.
Does your scale show lbs or percentages? I have a Renpho scale that uses percentages so the skeletal muscle increase is kinda misleading. Let's say I'm 175 with 54% skeletal muscle, 16% bf and 30% other (bones, organs, water, etc.), that is 94.5lbs skeletal muscle and 28lbs fat. If I loose 5 lbs (now 170) and my scale says I'm 54.4% skeletal muscle and 15.8% body fat, those new numbers are 92.48lbs muscle and 26.86lbs fat. So, yes I'm a higher percentage skeletal muscle. but I actually lost 2lbs of muscle.

numbers just for illustration

Not that your scale is necessarily the same, just something I noticed on mine.
 
UnusualLLama said:
I'm not really targeting a set weight, more going off how I look. That being said, I'm really not wanting to go below 70kg so we'll see how it goes.
I was around 94kg targeting 85kg as the first marker which should see me looking pretty lean.

Im trying to keep to a decent calorie amount each day but i am interested in how body would react to being at a calorie surplus whilst lifting hard or what would naturally be bulking season. Do you then see more muscle gains with less fat gained?
 
UnusualLLama said:
I'm not really targeting a set weight, more going off how I look. That being said, I'm really not wanting to go below 70kg so we'll see how it goes.
I have only a CM on you and I think very similar muscle mass. I think you'll be very happy around 72kg.
 
UnusualLLama said:
And that's another week in the bag!

Basic stats

Male

Mid-40's

5'10/178cm

Weight as of this morning - 75.9.kg/167.3309lbs (Down from 76.5.kg/168.6536lbs)

Rolling 7-day average is down 0.8kg/1.7637lbs (tiny bit higher than last week)

Estimated body fat - Down 0.3% (I'm using a withings scale, I know it's not super accurate, but I'm watching trends - fwiw since starting withings thinks I'm down 1.4% BF total and up 1.3% muscle mass)

Average resting heart rate - 46-48 (same as last week)

Average blood pressure - 112/69 (was 113/71)

Current dose - 1mg reta previously, yesterday I upped to 2mg

Thoughts and observations

The main thing of note here is that nothing really changed from last week, everything I reported then is still true this time around. The only difference now is I decided to up my dose to 2mg instead of 1mg.

This isn't a result of "I don't think this is working" because it clearly is, I see it visibly, the numbers show it, everything tells me it is. The only reason is because in the last couple of days before pinning it gets a bit more difficult.

It will be interesting to see how much of a correlation there is between dose and heart-rate and I'll update on any sides but I think it'll be fine.

Muscle retention rant

Probably going to go on a bit here but this has been playing on my mind quite a bit over the last week or so, especially after I saw the trends from my withings scale showing consistently higher lean mass numbers and smaller fat numbers.

Taking that at face value, it means that I'm burning fat and building muscle. I definitely am burning fat, as for building muscle I'm uncertain, but what I feel more certain about is that I'm not losing muscle. And that's one of the things that I was concerned about with reta. I said it in my initial post, I want to get lean and retain as much muscle as possible, but everywhere you read reta is portrayed as some muscle eating compound that you could shoot into the Hulk to change him back into Bruce Bana.

But I don't think that's the case.

So here's a few points I've been mulling over that I want to bring up.

1. All the studies show something like 25-30% lean mass reduction on people taking Reta. But this is misleading. The knee-jerk reaction of the world seems to be that lean mass = muscle, but that's not true.

Lean mass has a lot of things to it, and when talking about muscle specifically, it's not even all muscle. There's a lot of water in it (do a heavy leg workout that you feel the next day, I can easily weigh 1kg more than I should), intra-muscular fat, all sorts of things that add up to that number. But we see lean mass on the studies, and people immediately think muscle.

2. Again, the studies. Most of the people in these studies are suffering from clinical obesity and a whole host of other chronic issues, and from what I gather, there's a lot of much older people in the studies as well.

This is important because you have not only people who are metabolically broken, but also probably not doing all of the things you can do to minimise the loss of lean mass when in a calorie deficit. And that leads me nicely onto the next point.

3. Unless you're on a good dose of TRT, juice to the gills with SARMS (or something similar), or you make a swishing sound when you move because your pinning so many peptides into you on a daily basis, then anyone on a calorie deficit is going to lose some lean mass.

Anyone. Everyone.

And that's referring to a regular diet, eating less than you're expending.

The human body is great, incredible, it does a lot of things really really well.

But it's not perfect. You can't figure out the golden ratio of calories in vs. calories out with ideal muscle stimulus and decimal correct protein amounts and think the body will flip a switch and say "I'm only going to be burning 100% fat now". It's not THAT good. If you're in a deficit and losing weight, some will be lean mass.

Sure, you can tweak and do the right things, and minimise the ratio, but you will lose lean mass. End of.

4. This is the point that stands out to me the most, and it's kinda wild that I don't see anyone talking about it now that I've thought about it for a while.

Lean mass to total body weight ratio.

Here's a very rough example to get the idea.

You take someone that's overweight, 50% of their total weight is lean mass, the rest fat.

That person loses weight, let's say with a GLP. And when they reach their goal, scans show they lost 30% lean mass.

Shocking, right? Or is it?

That person started with a lean mass to total weight ratio of 0.5 (for every lb of weight, 0.5 of it was lean mass, the rest fat).

But at the end of the journey, because only 30% of the total weight they lost was lean mass, that means the other 70% was fat.

So now, instead of having a ratio of 0.5 it's probably more like 0.7. They've gone from half of their weight being lean mass to 70% of their weight being lean mass. Not only is that healthier, but that will visibly look a ton better, as well as feeling immensely better.

But this ratio is never highlighted, it's only the "30% lean mass/muscle gone" without giving it the proper nuance it actually needs.

So now that I've rambled way too much, my point is this. I think it's very possible to retain a very good amount of muscle (I said muscle not lean mass for a reason, read above 😉 )on Reta with just a few simple steps.

1. Easy calorie deficit, nothing too extreme. (I understand this might not be the case for everyone, some people have a lot more weight to lose, so you do you).

2. Adequate protein amounts. 1 gram of protein per estimated lb of lean mass (important distinction, lean mass, not muscle).

3. Proper stimulus for the muscles. You don't need to smash the gym 20x per week, just a few workouts where you have 1 or 2 sets in most muscle groups getting within 1-2 reps of failure should do it (I always like to push 1 set to absolute failure on most lifts where viable, don't do this for barbell squats and other compounds etc.)

4. Decent rest and recovery. This is when all of the work you put in is turned into something more than just work. Don't neglect sleep and recovery.

And that's it, rant over. I've typed way too much for something non-work related so I'm out.

Onto the next!
so what does your mirror tell you about any potential muscle loss - b/c you and i have some similarities and i'm very concerned about losing muscle. (6ft1 220, around 23%bf last i checked which was a while) I'm working out 3 times a week, which is about to go to 4x, and i just raised to 3mg per week. (starting my 2nd month of reta)

also - forgive me if you've already answered this, but i didn't see it, how is your sleep? i've been considering the cjc/ipa a lot of people talk about as something to help with deeper rest, b/c mine's....well, taken a hit, ha.
 
UnusualLLama said:
Side note - anyone find themselves drinking less coffee on reta? Maybe less caffeine in general? Because I'm definitely drinking less than I used to, which, for someone living in Sweden, is almost a hangable offence.
I cant even touch big ammounts of caffeine anymore.
 
jsc1980 said:
Does your scale show lbs or percentages? I have a Renpho scale that uses percentages so the skeletal muscle increase is kinda misleading. Let's say I'm 175 with 54% skeletal muscle, 16% bf and 30% other (bones, organs, water, etc.), that is 94.5lbs skeletal muscle and 28lbs fat. If I loose 5 lbs (now 170) and my scale says I'm 54.4% skeletal muscle and 15.8% body fat, those new numbers are 92.48lbs muscle and 26.86lbs fat. So, yes I'm a higher percentage skeletal muscle. but I actually lost 2lbs of muscle.

numbers just for illustration

Not that your scale is necessarily the same, just something I noticed on mine.
You're right to point that out, and my scale (or the app where I read the data) can show both % and raw numbers.

There's actually a small amount of muscle loss in the raw numbers now that I check, but this ties in with what I said about any sort of cut, with/without a GLP, is going to see some muscle loss.

So I guess the better way of looking at it would be;

Raw numbers = small muscle loss

Percentages = increased lean mass / weight ratio
 
px1984 said:
I was around 94kg targeting 85kg as the first marker which should see me looking pretty lean.

Im trying to keep to a decent calorie amount each day but i am interested in how body would react to being at a calorie surplus whilst lifting hard or what would naturally be bulking season. Do you then see more muscle gains with less fat gained?
Interesting point, something I've been thinking about as well as I near closer to the lower end of weight I'd want to be at. Because when I do hit that point, it'll be time for a bulking phase - is it possible on reta? I guess we might find out.
 
zpped said:
I have only a CM on you and I think very similar muscle mass. I think you'll be very happy around 72kg.
That wouldn't surprise me. It's already getting to the point where it really does feel like if that last few kg come away from the middle of me it'll end up looking great!
 
quicksilver80 said:
I cant even touch big ammounts of caffeine anymore.
I still can, that's not an issue - I just don't feel drawn/driven to it like I used to. I wonder if some of it is the reta making me utilize more fat for energy thus making me feel less tired at times.
 
Midwestmouse said:
so what does your mirror tell you about any potential muscle loss - b/c you and i have some similarities and i'm very concerned about losing muscle. (6ft1 220, around 23%bf last i checked which was a while) I'm working out 3 times a week, which is about to go to 4x, and i just raised to 3mg per week. (starting my 2nd month of reta)

also - forgive me if you've already answered this, but i didn't see it, how is your sleep? i've been considering the cjc/ipa a lot of people talk about as something to help with deeper rest, b/c mine's....well, taken a hit, ha.
You know, this is a strange one.

Not sure if you've ever watched any content by a fitness youtuber called Will Tenyson (spelling?) but he did a video last year I think where he went all-in on competing at his first ever natural bodybuilding competition.

And the specific part that comes to mind with your question is when he's talking about how, even though he knows he's lost a ton of weight, because most of it was fat and thus caused his muscles to show more, it actually made him look bigger (which I agree with).

Inevitably, we'll lose some muscle on a cut, but by uncovering that muscle beneath the fat, we probably look a bit bigger (even though we're not). Kinda how the brain messes with us I guess.

As for sleep, honestly, no issues. I mentioned in a few of the earlier updates, and worth noting I'm only currently on 2mg so I assume higher doses will be more prone to issues, but it's fine.

Or, well, when I say fine what I mean to say is no changes from the usual, which is always wanting more but never being able to get it due to life 😀
 
Midwestmouse said:
so what does your mirror tell you about any potential muscle loss - b/c you and i have some similarities and i'm very concerned about losing muscle. (6ft1 220, around 23%bf last i checked which was a while) I'm working out 3 times a week, which is about to go to 4x, and i just raised to 3mg per week. (starting my 2nd month of reta)

also - forgive me if you've already answered this, but i didn't see it, how is your sleep? i've been considering the cjc/ipa a lot of people talk about as something to help with deeper rest, b/c mine's....well, taken a hit, ha.
I've also not had any change in sleep patterns, the only real noticeable difference for me is around eyesight, hard to describe but a bit blurry and easier to fall out of focus. Very noticeable as i work at a computer all day but not if im out and about.

BPC has actually started to help it as I've just starting researching that, but keeping up with electrolytes as well.
 
jsc1980 said:
你的体重秤显示的是磅数还是百分比?我用的是Renpho的体重秤,它显示的是百分比,所以骨骼肌增加的数据有点误导人。假设我体重175磅,骨骼肌占54%,体脂占16%,其他组织(骨骼、器官、水分等)占30%,那么我的骨骼肌重94.5磅,脂肪重28磅。如果我减重5磅(变成170磅),体重秤显示我的骨骼肌占54.4%,体脂占15.8%,那么新的数据就是肌肉重92.48磅,脂肪重26.86磅。所以,没错,我的骨骼肌百分比确实提高了,但我实际上减掉了2磅肌肉。

这些数字只是为了说明问题。

当然,你的体重秤不一定跟我的一样,这只是我注意到的。
所以,我想再次探讨这个问题,因为它一直萦绕在我心头,以至于我把所有 Withings 数据导出到一堆 .csv 文件中,开始深入研究这些数据,我想我已经完全了解“肌肉流失”是怎么回事了。

时期 重量 脂肪量 肌肉量 水合作用 5月8日至14日平均值 78.6公斤 14.5公斤 60.9公斤 44.2公斤 6月1日至7日平均值 74.7公斤 12.6公斤 59.0公斤 42.7公斤

我第一次回复你的时候其实看错了数字,因为从理论上讲,一个月就掉了将近2公斤肌肉。这确实很惊人。但

关键在于水分。单看数字就掉了1.5公斤。

这是减脂期生物电阻抗分析(BIA)的典型表现。

体重秤无法直接测量肌肉组织,它通过电阻抗和模型来估算。

当糖原和水分下降时,模型就会出错。

我之所以重新审视这个问题并深入研究,是因为当我看到2公斤的肌肉差异时,我就想……我不可能在力量没有大幅下降的情况下损失2公斤肌肉,但事实并非如此。(实际上,我的某些举重成绩还略有提高。)

话虽如此,这样的减肥速度真的已经接近我能接受的极限了,甚至可能有点超标了。就像我在吐槽肌肉流失的时候提到的,肌肉流失是不可避免的 , 所以我打算稍微增加一下卡路里摄入量,大概200-300卡路里。
 
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