From Reta to Survo

[Calm Logic]

I read that it shouldn't be stored beyond 30 days.

Not a concern for me, nor something I have read. I sometimes use the phenol in my injectable B-12 as an alternative to BAC. So I plan to use B-12 the next time I recon HGH, which can be visibly fragile during and after recon (very prone to foaming and degrades quickly if left out of the fridge for days).

If appetite suppression is already adequate

Yes, there are other benefits, and that is a great point that I forgot about. While more GLP-1 activation would have diminishing returns at some point for things like inflammation and bloodwork results, adding glucagon activation (by taking reta or adding survo or maz) would help independently:

If appetite suppression is already adequate, the primary benefit of adding a glucagon agonist like Survodutide (or using a tri-agonist like Retatrutide) would come from the glucagon component itself. Glucagon activation has several distinct advantages beyond what you'd get from just GLP-1/GIP:

Increased Energy Expenditure: Glucagon plays a role in regulating metabolism and can increase the body's energy expenditure. This means you are burning more calories, even at rest. This effect is a different mechanism for weight loss than simply eating less, and it can be particularly helpful for breaking through a weight-loss plateau.

Targeting Liver Fat (Hepatic Steatosis): Glucagon agonism is very effective at reducing fat in the liver. This is a significant health benefit, especially for people with metabolic dysfunction-associated steatotic liver disease (MASLD), formerly known as non-alcoholic fatty liver disease (NAFLD).

Improved Lipid Profiles: While GLP-1 and GIP improve blood markers, glucagon can independently help with fat metabolism, leading to a further reduction in triglycerides and improvements in cholesterol levels.

This is why Survodutide is an attractive option, and why it's a key part of the mechanism for Retatrutide.

Click to expand...

 

[rsmith]

Not a concern for me, nor something I have read. I sometimes use the phenol in my injectable B-12 as an alternative to BAC. So I plan to use B-12 the next time I recon HGH, which can be visibly fragile during and after recon (very prone to foaming and degrades quickly if left out of the fridge for days).

Yes, there are other benefits, and that is a great point that I forgot about. While more GLP-1 activation would have diminishing returns at some point for things like inflammation and bloodwork results, adding glucagon activation (by taking reta or adding survo or maz) would help independently:

Thanks Calm. Now I'm wondering about whether "ghetto reta" and retatrutide are interchangeable (depending on what's already in your freezer). My understanding of Reta is that the 3 receptor agonists have been optimized to work together in a complimentary fashion which may not be the case with "ghetto Reta" after tinkering with various components.

I realize that many of us have lots of Tirz in the freezer and may be able to use it up stacked with Survo. However, Survo costs almost 4x the going price of Reta so the more economical approach may still be Reta over "ghetto Reta."

 

[Calm Logic]

Yeah, many tirz users take reta and tirz together while switching to reta. That is a guessing game too, if not more so.

While reta is more cost-effective for triple agonism, with more GIP activation and more glucagon activation per mg, reta is clearly not optimized for everyone:

Considering Survodutide

I've just started stacking Soro with Triz this week. I'm hoping it will stop my plateau.

glp1forum.com

Even getting up to 3-mg per week of survo for aggressive stacking would be affordable for most, at maybe $35 per month for survo if buying single vials, plus the cost of tirz. So not as cheap as just reta at 60 cents per mg but potentially very worthwhile. (Most people seem to stack with up to 2 mg of survo, but I mention 3 mg since that is my current plan for stacking.)

And of course more affordable stacking options for reta include cagri and sema.

 

[byefatlicia]

I saw that and thought about picking some up until I read that it shouldn't be stored beyond 30 days. Thus for weekly dosing, we're talking 4mg. per week. Does anyone have any experience storing reconstituted Survo longer than 30 days?

TFC Alice has kits of Survo-5. I got them for $100 ea. Free shipping at $300

 

[Calm Logic]

Isn't one of the benefits of tirzepatide or retatrutide the GIP agonism, as it counteracts the nausea and food aversion of GLP-1 at least to some degree. As survo does not have this does it cause more nausea? I know everyone has somewhat different reactions to the different medications, but wouldn't it be cheaper and easier to add a little bit of semaglutide to reta if you wanted more GLP-1 activation?

To add to your point, GIP is protective against nausea partly by being neutral for gastric emptying:

The most common side effect of GLP-1RAs is nausea and vomiting, which are hypothesized to result from inhibition of gastric emptying. Long-acting agents seem to have a lower incidence of gastrointestinal adverse effects (166), likely due to tachyphylaxis in gastric emptying with sustained GLP-1R stimulation. Nonetheless, residual effects on gastric emptying could still produce significant gastrointestinal adverse effects in patients treated with long-acting GLP-RAs (167). The absence of GIP’s effect on gastric emptying underscores the physiological and pharmacological distinctions between GIP and GLP-1. Notably, the undesirable gastrointestinal effects associated with GLP-1RAs have not been observed with GIPRAs (168). Instead, GIP may counteract nausea and vomiting via direct modulation of the area postrema/NST emesis circuitry (169) and exert protective effects on unfavorable altered gut motility (44).

From

Frontiers | Mechanisms of action and therapeutic applications of GLP-1 and dual GIP/GLP-1 receptor agonists

Glucose-dependent insulinotropic polypeptide (GIP) and glucagon-like peptide-1 (GLP-1) are two incretins that bind to their respective receptors and activate...

www.frontiersin.org

 

[byefatlicia]

To add to your point, GIP seems protective against nausea mostly by being neutral for gastric emptying:

From

Frontiers | Mechanisms of action and therapeutic applications of GLP-1 and dual GIP/GLP-1 receptor agonists

Glucose-dependent insulinotropic polypeptide (GIP) and glucagon-like peptide-1 (GLP-1) are two incretins that bind to their respective receptors and activate...

www.frontiersin.org

Can you summarize this in simple terms? asking for a friend...

 

[Calm Logic]

Part of a summary from Google Gemini:

GIP doesn't slow down gastric emptying, which is a major reason why it's better tolerated. On top of that, GIP seems to have a direct anti-nausea effect by acting on the brain's "vomiting center," helping to prevent feelings of sickness.

In my book, it's another win for reta and tirz, with reta seeming to have more GIP activation than tirz.

 

[Calm Logic]

Amino Lair has their survo 10 kit

@Amino Lair tested really well for survo:

99.98% purity

Survodutide 10mg COA.pdf

drive.google.com